Thread: Rascal v Marks & Spencer

I recently sent an SAR to M&S. I have had the majority of my personal loans and unsecured borrowing with them over the years. I have been sent back one loan that went into default and became part of my IVA in 2005. I took it out in 2003 and maintained monthly payments on it. They have sent the original loan agreement and had it of run to term the insurance with interest would have been £8500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I made a good 2.5 years worth of payments to the loan which was taken out over 7 years.

How do I go about claiming back in the PPI? Do I go for the full amount of £8500 as at looking at my default they have applied the whole of the insurance amount plus all the interest to my file?

I can attach my agreement etc. but don't have with me today.

Please help!!

R

Sorry I also should have added. I have had more than one loan with M&S - successful ones that ran to term. They are saying they have no record of the original paperwork on these as they were closed some time ago. I know I took the first out when I was 18 which was 11 years ago. Will they or should they have the informration on file somewhere and are they just fobbing me off? How do I go about getting information that is no longer stored with a company? They have my original loan account numbers but no paperwork.

Thanks.

Documentation should by law be retained for a period of six years after the last transaction on the account.

However you should still press for all the data and if you are not satisfied you should complain to the Information Commissions Office.

If your loans were refinancing loans then you should point this out as well requesting proof that any rebates on PPI were properly paid on early settlement.

If the full amount of the loan and the full amount of the PPI are still being sought by M & S after the default then IMO you should ask for the full amount of PPI to be repaid providing them with your reasons for claiming mis-selling.

I would say if they can provide the loan account numbers then they will also have more information archived and possibly on microfiche.

If they still maintain they have no records you should insist they send copies of the destruction details properly certified by a qualified data controller.

Brilliant thanks for your help will send further letter to them for other information before proceeding with claim on this one.

thx

On reading through (properly) all the stuff they sent me. I accepted a partial rebate of PPI about 12 months into the loan. There is an amount of £3000 that still didnt get back to me though. My loan was passed to a dmp and then became part of an IVA. I paid 16 months worth of insurance payments - can I ask for that to be rebated to me and then the balance to be taken off the debt??

This is the letter that I am thinking of sending I have cut and paste using another poster's suggestions. The original agreement does not stipulate if they are single or monthly premiums it just says X plus X (in ppi payment) will be your monthly fee. I am really stuck as to how to work out what to claim back. Basically my original payment was £419.11 over 84 months and then 13 months into the loan the PPi was cancelled and the payments went down to £340. Does this mean that my monthly payment was £79.11?? If so am I correct in thinking that the amount to claim for refund should be £1028.43? Its just that the balance was carried over to a dmp and if you add this figure to the amount carried over there is a £1500 odd deficit which makes me think that the premiums paid were a single premium and not monthly? I don't mind pasting my paperwork etc. if it helps. THanks.

Letter

I write with reference to the above account. From the information provided I can see that I requested to cancel my PPI insurance on [ ] and the following month a partial refund was given in the sum of [ ] plus interest of [ ]. The total policy was [ ] plus interest of [ ], equating to a deficit of [ ] in the refund. I am now thoroughly convinced that I was missold this PPI policy for the following reasons:

1. Responsibilities When Underwriting a Policy of Insurance: On application when the details of my application was entered on to the internet, you failed to check my personal circumstances at the time of the sale, which they are under obligation to do when underwriting a Policy of Insurance. If they had done so, they would have realised that the PPI policies were useless to me. At no time was any attempt made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed it was required at all.

2. Alternative Insurance Cover: I was not asked if I had any alternative arrangements for insurance cover. My employer has a generous illness package which would cover a period of sickness as follows: 6 months full pay followed by 6 months half pay. I would also be entitled to a generous redundancy package and a substantial payment would be made in the event of my death in service (more than suffice to clear the balance of the loan).

3. Widespread PPI Mis-Selling: I cancelled the PPI policy on [ ] on [2005] after becoming aware of the widespread mis-selling of PPI by some financial institutions, following recent media coverage and recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of PPI. I am also aware that the question of PPI cover is the subject of an ongoing inquiry by the Competition Commissioner.

4. True Nature of Single Premium PPI Not Explained: No explanation was forthcoming from yourselves on any occasion on the full extent of single premium PPI policies or the fact that they would offer little or no refund if the insurance was cancelled. The statements you have forwarded on account [ ], show no element of any refund of PPI or PPI interest when the accounts were closed. There was also no explanation that the cost of the PPI premium would be added to the total cost of credit and interest added for the full term of the agreement. I believe this practice is unlawful.

I now believe that premium PPI policy attached to the loan were both extremely unfair and totally unreasonable and offered me very little, if any protection value whatsoever. I am therefore requesting a full refund of all costs including all PPI premiums that have been paid, the interest added to these premiums and the payments, that I have paid to date. I believe this figure to be [ ] of which I would like [ ] returned to myself and [ ] added to the balance of the loan.

Furthermore as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of this money, I also expect the repayment of the interest at the Statutory Interest rate of 8% applicable to the premium.

**** bump ****

Originally Posted by rascal

On reading through (properly) all the stuff they sent me. I accepted a partial rebate of PPI about 12 months into the loan. There is an amount of £3000 that still didnt get back to me though. My loan was passed to a dmp and then became part of an IVA. I paid 16 months worth of insurance payments - can I ask for that to be rebated to me and then the balance to be taken off the debt?? (IMO you should continue to claim if you believe you have been mis-sold and not properly compensated for the loss that was incurred through the mis-selling)

This is the letter that I am thinking of sending I have cut and paste using another poster's suggestions. The original agreement does not stipulate if they are single or monthly premiums it just says X plus X (in ppi payment) will be your monthly fee. I am really stuck as to how to work out what to claim back. Basically my original payment was £419.11 over 84 months and then 13 months into the loan the PPi was cancelled and the payments went down to £340. Does this mean that my monthly payment was £79.11?? If so am I correct in thinking that the amount to claim for refund should be £1028.43? Its just that the balance was carried over to a dmp and if you add this figure to the amount carried over there is a £1500 odd deficit which makes me think that the premiums paid were a single premium and not monthly? I don't mind pasting my paperwork etc. if it helps. THanks.

Letter

I write with reference to the above account. From the information provided I can see that I requested to cancel my PPI insurance on [ ] and the following month a partial refund was given in the sum of [ ] plus interest of [ ]. The total policy was [ ] plus interest of [ ], equating to a deficit of [ ] in the refund. I am now thoroughly convinced that I was missold this PPI policy for the following reasons:

1. Responsibilities When Underwriting a Policy of Insurance: On application when the details of my application was entered on to the internet, you failed to check my personal circumstances at the time of the sale, which they are under obligation to do when underwriting a Policy of Insurance. If they had done so, they would have realised that the PPI policies were useless to me. At no time was any attempt made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed it was required at all.

2. Alternative Insurance Cover: I was not asked if I had any alternative arrangements for insurance cover. My employer has a generous illness package which would cover a period of sickness as follows: 6 months full pay followed by 6 months half pay. I would also be entitled to a generous redundancy package and a substantial payment would be made in the event of my death in service (more than suffice to clear the balance of the loan). (you should be sure of this as this is taken from one of my letters. Now if this circumstance covers your own claim then fine but be careful to write exact details for your own case).

3. Widespread PPI Mis-Selling: I cancelled the PPI policy on [ ] on [2005] after becoming aware of the widespread mis-selling of PPI by some financial institutions, following recent media coverage and recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of PPI. I am also aware that the question of PPI cover is the subject of an ongoing inquiry by the Competition Commissioner.

4. True Nature of Single Premium PPI Not Explained: No explanation was forthcoming from yourselves on any occasion on the full extent of single premium PPI policies or the fact that they would offer little or no refund if the insurance was cancelled. The statements you have forwarded on account [ ], show no element of any refund of PPI or PPI interest when the accounts were closed. There was also no explanation that the cost of the PPI premium would be added to the total cost of credit and interest added for the full term of the agreement. I believe this practice is unlawful.

I now believe that premium PPI policy attached to the loan were both extremely unfair and totally unreasonable and offered me very little, if any protection value whatsoever. I am therefore requesting a full refund of all costs including all PPI premiums that have been paid, the interest added to these premiums and the payments, that I have paid to date. I believe this figure to be [ ] of which I would like [ ] returned to myself and [ ] added to the balance of the loan.

Furthermore as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of this money, I also expect the repayment of the interest at the Statutory Interest rate of 8% applicable to the premium.

The rest of the letter is fine just be sure to proof read before sending so there are no errors. Banks and others love errors

aa

Ive just received a letter back from Emma Lavelle @ customer services giving me another 2 account details - over the years I have had 12 accounts for which they have only provided me details for 3. They would all have been consolidation loans etc. Am I right in thinking that if they have my a/c numbers they should have more details even if they are over 6 years old?

I have sent her a reply letter stating that I believe her information to be incorrect (her letter says they do not hold any more details for me) and that I wish to be provided with proof that my details in this instance were disposed of using a qualified data controller.

My question is do I wait until I have the full set of information or proceed on the 3 accounts that I have full information for (all bar original agreements ). I have about £5k worth of PPI just across these 3 so gawd knows what the others will amount to.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by rascal

Ive just received a letter back from Emma Lavelle @ customer services giving me another 2 account details - over the years I have had 12 accounts for which they have only provided me details for 3. They would all have been consolidation loans etc. Am I right in thinking that if they have my a/c numbers they should have more details even if they are over 6 years old?

I have sent her a reply letter stating that I believe her information to be incorrect (her letter says they do not hold any more details for me) and that I wish to be provided with proof that my details in this instance were disposed of using a qualified data controller.

My question is do I wait until I have the full set of information or proceed on the 3 accounts that I have full information for (all bar original agreements ). I have about £5k worth of PPI just across these 3 so gawd knows what the others will amount to.

Thanks.

Keep pressing for more account details. the earliest account should have some information on it relating the the account before and so on. Start with the earliest and tell them to provide with information from the previous account which was consolidated then work back from that if they do not supply the information as requested complain to the Information Commissioners Office.

I had seven loans four with direct line and three with RBS the fos dealt with them via two complaints.

You could start the ball rolling now to claim your PPI especially as the FOS takes a long while to deal with each one.

aa

Ive now received details of 3 accounts with M&S but have received a last letter about a week ago saying something along the lines of we have now concluded our investigation, we only have to keep information for the recommended minimum and do not have to disclose details of our destruction of your documents to you.

Im going to continue with the 3 agreements with the deficit of PPI on all 3. It comes to around £3k in total. In my terms and conditions it states nothing about set-off so hopefully I will get back my full sums.

R

I would really really appreciate some help on this.


Account No.1

I took out insurance that equated to £8641.08 (which would have been the total insurance premium plus interest paid had the account ran to term).

Ive been through the account Breakdown and found that I paid 13 sucessful payments before going into default. They credited back a total of £5609.47 in insurance and interest before the account went into default.

My question is am I then claiming for the £3031.61 deficit? or am I just claiming for the 13 months of successful payments.

Account No. 2

I took out insurance that equated to £3,448.80 (which would have been the total insurance premium plus interest paid had the account ran to term).

The breakdown shows that they rebated a total of £2,622.36. I had made 7 successful payments before refinancing to Loan No.1 above. This left a deficit of £826.44.

My question therefore is do I claim the £826.44 deficit or do I claim for the 7 successful payments.

Account No. 3

I took out insurance that equated to £2346.72 (which would have been the total insurance premium plus interest paid had the account ran to term).

The breakdown shows that they rebated a total of £1729.87. I had made 6 successful payments before refinancing to Loan No.2 above. This left a deficit of £616.85.

My question again therefore is do I claim the £616.85 or just for the successful payments?


This is sooooo confusing.

Basically I want to claim for all the loans in one go. I only defaulted on the last one (loan 1). The other two were refinancing loans with the same company (M&S).

Potentially a claim for £4474.90??

**!!HELP!!**

Originally Posted by rascal

I would really really appreciate some help on this.


Account No.1

I took out insurance that equated to £8641.08 (which would have been the total insurance premium plus interest paid had the account ran to term).

Ive been through the account Breakdown and found that I paid 13 sucessful payments before going into default. They credited back a total of £5609.47 in insurance and interest before the account went into default.

My question is am I then claiming for the £3031.61 deficit? or am I just claiming for the 13 months of successful payments.

Account No. 2

I took out insurance that equated to £3,448.80 (which would have been the total insurance premium plus interest paid had the account ran to term).

The breakdown shows that they rebated a total of £2,622.36. I had made 7 successful payments before refinancing to Loan No.1 above. This left a deficit of £826.44.

My question therefore is do I claim the £826.44 deficit or do I claim for the 7 successful payments.

Account No. 3

I took out insurance that equated to £2346.72 (which would have been the total insurance premium plus interest paid had the account ran to term).

The breakdown shows that they rebated a total of £1729.87. I had made 6 successful payments before refinancing to Loan No.2 above. This left a deficit of £616.85.

My question again therefore is do I claim the £616.85 or just for the successful payments?


This is sooooo confusing.

Basically I want to claim for all the loans in one go. I only defaulted on the last one (loan 1). The other two were refinancing loans with the same company (M&S).

Potentially a claim for £4474.90??

**!!HELP!!**

It is difficult for me to give you a response on the figures.

You state you had lots of loans refinanced and only went into default on the most recent.

As M&S have now responded with they cannot help you further it is time IMO to complain to the fos. There are links to the complaint procedures in the stickies at the top of the forum..

Mis-sold PPI? Want your money back? use these links to help

somewhere in this there will be an appropriate link for the FOS.

Then you can contact them by phone they will start the ball rolling. You will fill in the complaints form which you should send with copies of all correspondence between you and M&S up to date. Send everything Special delivery next day or at the very least recorded signed for delivery.

Then wait for a long while and forward any other correspondence between you and M&S to the FOS as it arrives.

The complaint will incur a fee of £500 to M&S payable to the FOS and then it is a case of sit back and wait as the FOS are inundated with complaints.

Time is the factor as the FOS even having taken on more staff are still months behind with thousands of cases.

the good news is they are upholding 90% in favour of the consumer.

Also inform the FOS that you had multiple agreements with M&S but they have failed to provide you with information on them all due to the timings and send a separate letter about their failure to provide information to the Information Commissioners Office. Details are also in the link provided above.

Keep up the momentum, make them fight, pay the FOS fee and answer some questions from the ICO.

Make life difficult for them as they have obviously done for you.

aa

Thank you. Should I proceed with the current PPI claim on M&S using the figures that I have got? Either way there is definitely a deficit in what I have been refunded to date. If the fos then uphold my complaint and the rest of the paperwork is given to me I can continue my claim further wtih even more missold ppi?

In the meantime do I also proceed to the FOS with the information I have to date? Also you mention the ICO but to date I have not had ICO involvement on this claim. I am going the ICO route with Barclaycard as they have been a complete waste of time.

This is a darn sight more complicated than sorting out the bank charges a few years back!

Complaint put in to fos as of today - spoke to very charming man who co-incidentally lives in the same town and shares the same birthday as me ! Said I should hear within 8 weeks one way or the other.

R

Originally Posted by rascal

Complaint put in to fos as of today - spoke to very charming man who co-incidentally lives in the same town and shares the same birthday as me ! Said I should hear within 8 weeks one way or the other.

R

Go with the FOS it is free to you and costs bank £500 also the adjudicator looks at both sides of the complaint and respondent. If the adjudicator rules against you then you can ask for the Ombudsman to look at the case.

No Court fees, Court paperwork, Defences and no legally trained barristers trying to confound you.

Also if the Ombudsman rules against you then you still have the option of Starting a small claim in the county court but this will need legal advice from another forum.

aa

Thank you very very much for all your advice so far. Will keep updating as and when I hear anything.

Originally Posted by rascal

Thank you very very much for all your advice so far. Will keep updating as and when I hear anything.

You are welcome keep posting with updates

aa

Good news!! A partial win!!

Well M&S contacted me yesterday offering settlement towards loan number 2 but nothing towards loan number 3 or 1. They requested the full amount that I calculated plus 8% interest.

I have sent back the settlement letter for the first loan but am addressing under separate cover their failure to provide refunds for the other two.

Its strange because in their coverig letter they say they cannot deal with refunds for the other 2 as they have no record of my agreements yet they have already sent them to me!!!????

I have given them a further 14 days to respond (is this ok?? I wont send letter til someoen posts back to me on this forum).

I put my complaint into the fos on circa. 6th Jan if this is any help to anyone - they dealt with it relatively quickly. They said I should hear within 8 weeks and it has been 3 (ish).

Fingers crossed for the others....

Ive sent copies of my loan agreements for the other two on to M&S with a letter saying if I do not hear from them within 14 days I will contact the fos and inform them it has not been dealt with satisfactorily.

Originally Posted by rascal

Ive sent copies of my loan agreements for the other two on to M&S with a letter saying if I do not hear from them within 14 days I will contact the fos and inform them it has not been dealt with satisfactorily.

Well done on the partial win. You are right to pursue the other two. M & S are in contradiction if they say they cannot pay out on two loans because they do not have the Agreements on them, but have already sent them to you. I see you have sent copies of what you have. You must now continue to agressively pursue your claim for the PPI on the other loans if they do not pay up go to the FOS. Better to start and keep copies of all documents to assist the FOS to make an adjudication. The more information they have to look at the sooner they can assess your case. It will however take some time but it is worth the wait.

aa