Thread: gaz V egg

Hi,

Firstly I would get the CCA request into ARC. If you are worried that they may send it back and say to go to the OC, then I would send this letter:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...tml#post162367

Or this one

http://www.consumerforums.com/resour...request-letter

If they still send it back, put the account into dispute with them and complain to Trading Standards.

Send a SAR to Egg. If Egg don't have an up to date address for you then enclose a copy of a utility bill. This is to stop them delaying their response.

Try to stay off the phone unless you can record the conversations

Originally Posted by gazab41

Hi all managed to get cca request off to ARC yesterday after speaking to fos who told me Egg had until 8th November to send me final response.

I have had nothing as yet in way of a response now I get Trevor Munns 2nd letter arriving today.

any advice please no cca on eggs site not sure what the state of play is obviously i do not want to end up with CCJ.

Please can some one help !

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/y...eveormunn2.jpg

Ok the letter may or may not be a threat, you need to search around for other people dealing with trevor munns and see if they do threaten and not follow through.

In any case if you have just sent the CCA and I'm guessing by Recorded delivery then with the postal strike its not likely to get there in time if they do wish to initiate proceedings.

However even if they do start a court claim that doesnt mean 100% you will get a CCJ, you do get to defend against them.

The fact you have the FOS involved in an ongoing dispute should be enough to show that Egg are being unreasonable and if they issue proceedings prior to that investigation finishing then it should show them in a bad light in front of a judge. Have you ever received a notice of assignment from ARC?

S.

Originally Posted by gazab41

no have never recived notice of assignment whats one of those ?

If a debt is sold then a notice of assignment is required to be sent under the law of property, the fact you didnt receive it when it was passed to CSL would seem to indicate its Egg all along and just farming out through DCA's to get more money in.

S.

Originally Posted by gazab41

Just to confirm CCA request recived by ARC today signed for this morning

Blimey, so much for the 35million items of post in backlog then

12days to go then

S.

I would put the account into dispute, resend the £1 and point them to the bit in red on this link:

http://www.consumerforums.com/resour...request-letter

Report them to Trading Standards.

Gaz,

Ref PM, the advice you are getting neds to be followed.

ARC must forward the CCA request on to Egg. They do not have an option. They must forward it on to Egg. ARC have after all, told you only to deal with them.

This is the standard letter to send, altered slightly for ARC and egg. standard letters can be found in the Forum Library, but post back if you don't find what you need at any stage. Send this letter to ARC, c.c. this letter to Munn and Egg.

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is now subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request and have returned my statutory fee of £1, requesting that I contact Egg Direct. You will be aware that you, acting as agents for Egg have a legal duty to pass on this request to Egg. I have therefore enclosed the £1 statutory fee again and a copy of my original request.

Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you or your client, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a) the state of the account, and
(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.
(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

While this account remains in serious dispute, the relevant main points of the Law and OFT regulations while the account is in this state and ARC and Egg remain in default are:

• You may not ask for payment against this account.
• I am not obliged to offer any payment against this account.
• You cannot register any data with a third party.
• You cannot take any enforcement action, including registering Defaults.
• You cannot pass the account on to a third party for collection.
• You cannot sell the account.

Clearly as no agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

To clarify S.61(1) states

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and
(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and
(c) The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

1.Number of repayments;
2.Amount of repayments;
3.Frequency and timing of repayments;
4.Dates of repayments;
5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file
All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from 27/03/09 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.
In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

What I Require.

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

No other correspondence will be accepted

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.

I would also remind you that this account is subject to an ongoing official complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. A court would take an extremely dim veiw of any action instigated while such an investigation is live.


I trust this out lines the situation

Yours faithfully

Hi Gaza

Your signature needs to be on the same page as the prescribed terms, Credit limit or reference to it, interest rate expressed as an APR and repayment schedule.

Are you saying that they have forged your signature?

As far as the T&C's naming another individual, complaint to the ICO and maybe let the other chap know that his data has been sent to you.

There are loads of individual letters around but I can only point you towards the template letters.

Letter 9

The Consumer Forums - debt collectors

Originally Posted by gazab41

Hi was wondering if anyone has a letter to send to Egg as a response to a completely unenforceable agreement prescribed terms missing no default charges listed and various other cock ups mines even dated before i signed it and the handwriting for date where i signed it is not even my handwriting signiture is an old one of mine mind

You need to scan the agreement, minus your details and post here.

Who did it eventually come from, Egg?