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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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After judgment gained against LBL have they paid out on the Judgment


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Hi guys me again. At last I can tell you all the truth behind my problem. I found out in January a mate at the time stole my LB from my filing cabinet and pulled a LBL.

I no previous threads have said something different but when I found out I was threatened that if I went to old bill I would never get car back,so I went along with this (he also said I would get hurt) I had spent alot of cash on car in January new engine £2000 it cost. LBL where told.

In July they took it. I then found out that everything could be challenged that meant I could get car back he wouldn't have to pay the loan. he had it on a plate. I did all court paperwork all he had to do was sign it. But even that was to much trouble.

Any way they sold my car leaving him I think with a very large loan. I went crazy and finally reported it to old bill. They are not really interested because I cant prove its my car because I had it put in another name to stop Bailiffs on a Council Tax bill I didn't owe about two years ago or so. The car then had accident and was off road for ten months . It went back on road for 5 weeks then blew up. It was then off road for a year, until l I paid for a new engine January this year.

He is saying I let him do this. I didn't no a thing. he has not made any payments at all not even after I found out.

He is now trying to get me done for fraud on a BT acc that he took out here and saying that I used his Bank acc to pay for it. I didn't put it in his name. The police are more interested in this than the car part. I have the person whose name the car was in to come forward .

If he gets away with the theft of the car, LBL are still in trouble because they where told that I had put money into the car, and according to the BOS act I have an equatable ownership on the car so they can still be done for theft and the recovery company.

I have had enough of the whole thing please I'm desperate for advice

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I have also reported this to the police. The police have asked questions with LBL I again emailed them. I have not heard a thing. I am in the middle of applying to challenging the very existence of the BOS on grounds set out in sec 5. of the Act. I am the True owner, (legal owner, also Im the equitable owner of the chattels . The grantor assigned away the property absolutely. to another ( another being me) because of the equitable interest I had in the chattels, due to the money the grantor had from me (on a loan basis)for the engine and relating costs of the labour for works carried out on it.

They had been told of my interest in the chattels by both the grantor and me the third party. But months later after this they came un announced using a level phyical and mental abuse to gain poccession

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Hi guys me again. At last I can tell you all the truth behind my problem. I found out in January a mate at the time stole my LB from my filing cabinet and pulled a LBL.

I no previous threads have said something different but when I found out I was threatened that if I went to old bill I would never get car back,so I went along with this (he also said I would get hurt) I had spent alot of cash on car in January new engine £2000 it cost. LBL where told.

In July they took it. I then found out that everything could be challenged that meant I could get car back he wouldn't have to pay the loan. he had it on a plate. I did all court paperwork all he had to do was sign it. But even that was to much trouble.

Any way they sold my car leaving him I think with a very large loan. I went crazy and finally reported it to old bill. They are not really interested because I cant prove its my car because I had it put in another name to stop Bailiffs on a Council Tax bill I didn't owe about two years ago or so. The car then had accident and was off road for ten months . It went back on road for 5 weeks then blew up. It was then off road for a year, until l I paid for a new engine January this year.

He is saying I let him do this. I didn't no a thing. he has not made any payments at all not even after I found out.

He is now trying to get me done for fraud on a BT acc that he took out here and saying that I used his Bank acc to pay for it. I didn't put it in his name. The police are more interested in this than the car part. I have the person whose name the car was in to come forward .

If he gets away with the theft of the car, LBL are still in trouble because they where told that I had put money into the car, and according to the BOS act I have an equatable ownership on the car so they can still be done for theft and the recovery company.

I have had enough of the whole thing please I'm desperate for advice

 

bump

Trooper68:)

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Hi guys me again, can any body please advise me if the name on a car logbook is proof of legal owner.

Can a logbook have one persons name, but be legally owned by another.

If so can you point me to any law supporting this, I have issues with Logbook loans, who took my car due to a logbook loan placed on it.

I have studied the Bill of Sales Act which gives them the security on my car. It states sec 5 of the Act, contains two important provisions avoiding a Bill of Sale, "except as against the grantor," in respect of

 

(1) personal chattels not specifically described in the scheduled;

and

 

(2) personal chattels specifically described therein of which the grantor was not the true owner at the date of the deed

 

Can any body please clarify the legal term for the following

 

1.Legal ownership

 

2.Equitable ownership.

 

Or just advice on legal requirements if any on a logbook

Edited by Nicky Bodmin
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BigBear I don't disagree with what you say but & it's a big but, by your own admission you have only looked at one matter involving LBL & I can tell you that some who have looked at many can say that LBL reps do not explain the purpose of the BOS & in fact it is alleged that their reps do underplay the significance of the BOS when asking the client to sign

 

Fleeced It's not the rep who swears the affidavit it's the solicitor for the firm which is worse if it's proven the BOS was presented for signature in a manner likely to mislead

Hi guys sorry to but in, has anyone seen an affidavit with LBL solicitor swearing the Oath if so, according to the BOS Act if this happens the solicitor is commiting PUJURY very serious. Even if someone that is linked to the solicitor swears it the same applies. And according to the BOS ACT a solicitor has to explain in detail to the borrower, the power of the BOS and what it does, not the Rep. This has to be done before the execution Signatures of the BOS The credit agreement first then the BOS
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Hi Nicky

 

Let me apologise for butting in.......BUT

 

No, No, No, No......

 

do not confuse the wording of the BoS Act 1878 with the wording of the BoS Act 1882....

 

the wording you are speaking of was repealed in the 1882 BoS Act.

 

the new words refer to a 'credible witness' and the issue is - is it credible that a representative of the Trader who may have a vested interest in the Agreement - should be considered 'credible'.

 

A solicitor of Oaths is not liable in the same way as previous at all.

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi Nicky

 

Let me apologise for butting in.......BUT

 

No, No, No, No......

 

do not confuse the wording of the BoS Act 1878 with the wording of the BoS Act 1882....

 

the wording you are speaking of was repealed in the 1882 BoS Act.

 

the new words refer to a 'credible witness' and the issue is - is it credible that a representative of the Trader who may have a vested interest in the Agreement - should be considered 'credible'.

 

A solicitor of Oaths is not liable in the same way as previous at all.

 

Agreed, can it be seen that a credible witness who profits from the sale, I.E commision? or sign as a witness as say manager, with no name and address? So in respect of the law, how can it not be a conflict of intrest?

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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A witness should NOT be a beneficiary & a solicitor will be liable if he rubber stamps an affidavit without swearing the presenter ............... Rather difficult I would have thought if the rep & client lives in Durham & the solicitor is based in say Wimbledon

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Hi guys me again, can any body please advise me if the name on a car logbook is proof of legal owner.

Can a logbook have one persons name, but be legally owned by another.

If so can you point me to any law supporting this, I have issues with Logbook loans, who took my car due to a logbook loan placed on it.

I have studied the Bill of Sales Act which gives them the security on my car. It states sec 5 of the Act, contains two important provisions avoiding a Bill of Sale, "except as against the grantor," in respect of

 

(1) personal chattels not specifically described in the scheduled;

and

 

(2) personal chattels specifically described therein of which the grantor was not the true owner at the date of the deed

 

Can any body please clarify the legal term for the following

 

1.Legal ownership

 

2.Equitable ownership.

 

Or just advice on legal requirements if any on a logbook

 

 

A logbook is not proof of ownership. Its a proof of a keeper.

A finance company owns the car until the payments are finished, but, you "keep" the car at your address.

thats what was explained to me by the fuzz..:-)

 

trooper68

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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Do you have the log book? Do you have a reciept?, you could try an injunction to stop them taking it at county court, I understand Nicky Bodmin did this.

 

trooper68

I didnt get an injunction they sold it before I could. I have gone to the police but they are not interested. But that dont mean your police will take the same action
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A logbook is not proof of ownership. Its a proof of a keeper.

A finance company owns the car until the payments are finished, but, you "keep" the car at your address.

thats what was explained to me by the fuzz..:-)

 

trooper68

 

trooper68

Hi, but the car didnt belong to the person who took out the loan. They have now sold the car and I have lost alot of money. And the signatures on all the paperwork are all different and not the borrowers
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LBL - BOS unfair terms. - Log Book Loans / Bills of Sale - Consumer Action Group

 

Hi can you please tell me if I can use this to on LBL because they took my car and sold it when they had been told it was not the grantors car. I dont have the V5 because it was taken and name changed for the application of the LBL. I have been to the police and they say its civil. How can it be when they took my car.

I need to do a letter before action on thieft charges to LBL and fraudulant signatures on application for loan. Is there any of these letters on the forum

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Hi, but the car didnt belong to the person who took out the loan. They have now sold the car and I have lost alot of money. And the signatures on all the paperwork are all different and not the borrowers

 

 

Then you are a victim of fraud, the police should be informed. However, I would go along with the person who had the loan and make a statement to the Police, stating that the signature is not his/hers. The Police must make inquires based on your statments. That would be my next step.

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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Why not, give it a go, whats the worst that can happen? Its only a cost of a stamp and recorded post. Edit it for yourself.

 

It may get them to panic and make a mistake. You never know, they have contacted people and paid out.

It would be nice if they stated they are agents and not baliffs...

Heres hoping.

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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I have tried to open the link on this but it comes up with an error report is there any form of letter that can be sent to LBL about the fraudulent signatures they are the one I want to scare into paying out. Also they stole and sold my car when it is not the grantors car to do a loan on

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Hi thanks for reply, I didnt buy the car with LBL on it I have always owned the car. Its was off road for long time sat outside my house. I put it back on the road in jan09. They have removed and sold the car even thought they where had been told it was not his car. The police have been involved but dont want to no.

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Hi Applecart, can the same apply to my case, I have always owned my car. It was off the road for a year. I then had nem engine put in and the baliffs came to take it. I told them and company that it was my car. But then took it in July and have now sold it. I cant prove its mine because the log book had gone. But I have got all details of purchase and ins claim just before it went off the road. I can prove that I had made enquiries back in July for the engine and I paid for engine by my credit card and can prove that I took money out of bank account then paid it onto card. The company that I bought engine from can give dates and details of the first enquiry on this engine and the garage that did the work can give evidence that I paid them, to do the work. What more evidence do I need that its is my car.

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Hi Nicky B

 

I have not been able to get your link to appear and it is difficult to fully understand your situation - so bear with me.....when I suggest that if any of the information posted 'fits' then take from it what you can and ignore what may not assist.

 

If after looking at any of the solutions offered anywhere on the forum by anyone else assists, patch and paste what you deem to be of use to satisfy yourself that you are ready to move your case forward.

 

Once you are sure how you would like to proceed - instruct a solicitor or if you feel confident enough - file a claim yourself

 

hope this helps : )

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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thank you I have got to do it myself because I cant afford to instruct a solicitor. I cant work because I need my car to work. So a straight forward application on the grounds the car is mine on N244 form. Because the car has been sold how much do I claim, because I spend two thousand on it in January and it had about two thousand in extras that I put on it.. What can I claim in destress any advice please.Do I have to challenge the BOS. Can I use the Human rights art 8. The way the Baliff treated me they where violent when they took the car pushed me out of the way onto the floor to gain entry threatened to have me arrested for stealing my car if I didnt give them the car. LBL will not tell me whyo took car and they didnt give any pperwork to say who they where

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yeah perhaps the link is broken. There are templates in the home page, but I would make one to suit your situ. Reading you posts it seems that most of the avenues have not been successful Yet.

 

Why not edit the above post a try that, remove the thing on traffic.

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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I have not tried any yet because I dont no how to move forward now that the car has been sold I have writen to LBL but no reply about the sale of my car. All I no it was my car taken to pay someone elses debt. I cant afford a solicitor. Im starting to not be able to deal with this

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