Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

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  1. #1
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    Default cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Hello,

    Am at the stage of starting a moneyclaim for my charges. So far i have had a letter saying that they will refund the charges between the value of £12 to £25 but am still going for the full amount. The letter seems to be a standard one sent out to others saying that they will get the case transfered to a local court and that they will defend using the information from the OFT report.

    Am i right in saying that they would still need to prove the elements of manual work and provide a breakdown of how these charges are calculated?

    I would be gratful if anyone (martin) could post any information that i may need in the very near future.

    Thanks and good luck to everyone

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Ok the letter I was on about is basically one that was devised to address the issue of a bank/other inst making an application to the courts to have the case transferred to their area.
    The arguements from the banks (or certainly Citi ) was that they were facing largescale litigations and that it would be easier to address them if they were able to be held in Salford....this being their headquarters.
    For the claimant it is argued that Citi are an organisation and had lots more resources than the individual.
    They had continually used stalling tacticts and had not defended a single case with any success.

    Now I will go and find the letter !

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  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Thanks very much. I am 99% certain, but can you confirm that they dont have a valid defence using the OFT report, or if they do then they would have to disclose the very information that banks want to hide, which is how these costs are calculated and what profits are made from them?

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    They have no such defence.......the oft is not proof that it costs them 12.00.
    To sucessfully defend would need them to disclose the costs.
    This,as we know they will not do.

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  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Thanks thats what i thought, but you start to question yourself with the confidence they have in the letters. Your a gent. Let me know when you find that letter regarding geting the cased moved to a local court. Thanks

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Have a look at this

    Was back in June when I first heard about this.
    Rich posted with some interesting comments........will have to contact him to see how his claim going.

    The letter is in this thread and as I say was used.

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...tin3030+v+citi

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  7. #7
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    very interesting reading regarding the letter, although i have to admit i got lost about the defence!!

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  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    right i am almost ready to start my claim, but have since found out that they have now credited part of the money back. do i therefore still submit the claim but only showing the portion that they havent paid back. eg 17/3/2005 @ £12.00 + interesticon? i hope this makes sense?

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    They have made it clear what the refunds are so adjust your charges schedule accordingly.



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  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Claim done. Thanks for your help Martin3030

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Well done......will be following with great interesticon I have mine to submit but have held back because of other commitments.



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  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Well the claim was served and then the acknowledgement and I received the defense this morning, main points being that they deny:-

    1 That the charges are a disproportionate penalty and unreasonable with section 15 of the Supply of goods act and asks me to prove this with specific reference to case law etc

    2 Also that my claims doesn’t show the exact dates that the charges were made and wants me to provide strict proof of this (hmm, I could send them copies of my statements and charge then £10 for each one J)

    3 The next point goes on to say that they did debit my account for x amount by way of late payments and overlimit fees (Now I have two issues with this, a) the amount that they say that they debited is only the amount upto £12 as they have now refunded my the difference of £13.00 taking the total debit at that time of £25, so they aren’t really being that accurate and b) Haven’t they just asked for proof if this in point 2?....They want me to prove that I was charged yet then admit they charged me?)

    4 Next bit just says that my claim is based upon the OFT report and that OFT don’t think that the principle of default charges are unfair but rather just the amount (hey, Citi am happy for you to prove that your charges of £12.00 are not disprorationate, all you have to do is tell me and the courts how the charges are calculated and what manual intervention had occurred and the judge can decide!!)

    5 Says that they now work to the new industry standard of £12 and now abide by the OFT report

    6 Says that they account was in arrears and was sold off at a loss. (hey I was only I debt for the last two years because of these charges, without them my account would have been paid off without your default and you wouldn’t have made a loss. Regardless of this I don’t understand the relevance to my claim?)

    7 States that they paid off my account (being the £13.00 difference) as a gesture of goodwillicon.

    8 States that my claim is not a moneyclaim but a damages claim and not subject to interesticon, but if it is then my calculations as wrong. (oh…..why?)


    So that’s it, I am kind of shocked at the defense and most of it is a complete nonsense and doesn’t have any real merit. Solicitors like to hide behind fancy words and try to confuse you the statements but am not going to be scared into withdrawing.

    Cant wait to get my allocation questionnaireicon, see you in court big boy!!

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by cwoj
    Well the claim was served and then the acknowledgement and I received the defense this morning, main points being that they deny:-

    1 That the charges are a disproportionate penalty and unreasonable with section 15 of the Supply of goods act and asks me to prove this with specific reference to case law etc

    2 Also that my claims doesnít show the exact dates that the charges were made and wants me to provide strict proof of this (hmm, I could send them copies of my statements and charge then £10 for each one J)

    3 The next point goes on to say that they did debit my account for x amount by way of late payments and overlimit fees (Now I have two issues with this, a) the amount that they say that they debited is only the amount upto £12 as they have now refunded my the difference of £13.00 taking the total debit at that time of £25, so they arenít really being that accurate and b) Havenít they just asked for proof if this in point 2?....They want me to prove that I was charged yet then admit they charged me?)

    4 Next bit just says that my claim is based upon the OFT report and that OFT donít think that the principle of default charges are unfair but rather just the amount (hey, Citi am happy for you to prove that your charges of £12.00 are not disprorationate, all you have to do is tell me and the courts how the charges are calculated and what manual intervention had occurred and the judge can decide!!)

    5 Says that they now work to the new industry standard of £12 and now abide by the OFT report

    6 Says that they account was in arrears and was sold off at a loss. (hey I was only I debt for the last two years because of these charges, without them my account would have been paid off without your default and you wouldnít have made a loss. Regardless of this I donít understand the relevance to my claim?)

    7 States that they paid off my account (being the £13.00 difference) as a gesture of goodwillicon.

    8 States that my claim is not a moneyclaim but a damages claim and not subject to interesticon, but if it is then my calculations as wrong. (ohÖ..why?)


    So thatís it, I am kind of shocked at the defense and most of it is a complete nonsense and doesnít have any real merit. Solicitors like to hide behind fancy words and try to confuse you the statements but am not going to be scared into withdrawing.

    Cant wait to get my allocation questionnaireicon, see you in court big boy!!
    Had similar rubbish about 10 days ago - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...citicards.html

    Have AQ to do the weekend.


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  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    I have completed most of my allocation questionnaireicon, however i am unsure if i need to put anything into box G (other information)... I have sent the defendant a schedule of charges three times, with each letter, however i haven’t sent one to the court. The money claim site has limited space so on my particulars i merely stated that a schedule of charges were available. The particulars did show all other financial points eg, claim amount, interesticon and court fee.

    Do i need to list my charges in box G or just attach it on a separate sheet? Has anyone else asked or noted anything else? Can I ask for full disclosure?

    Also, is it true that if the claim is below £1500 then there is no fee for the allocation questionnaire?

    Thanks

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Yes no fee.
    Send the charges schedule to the court (the new one should include the 8% interesticon)
    and also a copy for the bank.

    There is details on filling in the aqicon including the section you refere to in the bank temps folder.
    Have a look at the post "filling in the allocation questionaire" by Jonnie2bad.
    This is a good post and will answer youir questions.
    Link for this below.

    If you have further questions just ask.

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  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Thanks Martin3030. My aqicon is now done and posted.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    well done.
    Will be following your progress.
    Off for a glass whiskey to celebrate my 3000th post !

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  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Hello

    I am haven’t been on this site for the last couple of months as I have been very busy. Basically my mother-in-law has be diagnosed with terminal cancer, so I have together with my wife been busy looking after her needs, eg ferrying her to hospital, local hospice and general things, like cooking and cleaning. This is quite hard whilst still working 5 days a week and looking after our three kids. Because of this I did contact Citi to ask if they would agree to an out of court settlement. They didn’t even ring back but just wrote saying no way. Anyway due to our personal circumstances I haven’t read as many threads in the last few months so am not fully aware of what may have happened in recent cases.

    Anyway, Christmas came and went and then this morning I received a pack from Citi cards. Basically I have a court date (my local one) for next week and need to sent off my documentation.

    They have submitted numerous things? Did others get this and if so what sort of tact with Citi take.

    Documents Received:-

    Philips Hong Kong Ltd v’s The Attorney General of Hong Kong
    Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Company Ltd v’s New Garage and Motor Company Ltd
    OFT Report (April 2006) (Marked Exhibit 1)
    Jobson V’s Johnson
    Citifinancial Default Fee Cost Justification (Marked Exhibit 2)
    Witness Statement From Alan Jones (FD)
    Skeleton Argument

    Has anyone got any advice / comments. I have a lot to go through to prepare for this, so any tips however trivial are most welcome.

    Thanks

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    Sorry to hear about your relative, I cant give you any tips, just to offer a morale boost...........You must be tired of Citi and their antics so keep going with your claim and I'M SURE THERE will be plenty of help and tips forthcoming from nolageable members.


  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder cwoj Novitiate

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    Default Re: cwoj vs Citi Cards

    i hope so, i have tried to read through a few threads but it takes so long and i have to go get the mother-in-law from the hospital as she has just had another round of chemo.

    I might just give in and leave it.

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