confirmation required ref: cca act compliance.

**jannercobbler** · 8th August 2006 19:33

Originally posted in the Other organisations section but may get more response here?

Case history,

Received this letter from Ruthbridge Ltd (never heard of them before).

Date 21st July 2006
Our Ref xxxxxxxxxx
Client Name Direct Legal & Collections
Assigned From Citifinancial Europe
Client Ref xxxxxxxxx
Balance £2216.01

Dear JC

NOTICE BEFORE PROCEEDINGS

We have been instructed by the above named Client to retrieve this outstanding balance in full. Failure to respond to this notice within seven days may result in the following legal action:

A county court icon

claim form being issued.
A Judgment being obtained, which will accrue costs and interest icon

.
A bailiffs icon

Warrant may be served for seizure icon

of assets.
An Attachment to Earnings / Garnishee Order.

To avoid proceedings being issued against you, contact must be made through our legal department on the above telephone number and your payment, in full, must be received within the next seven days.

All payments should be sent to the above address and made payable to RUTHBRIDGE LIMITED with our reference number 10148338, clearly stated at all times. Alternatively, you can make payments by using our CREDIT/DEBIT CARD facilities on the above telephone number.

Yours sincerely,

Sent CCA request to them on 27/7/06 stating that I do not acknowledge any debt to their client, also sent CCA to Citicards on 27/7/06 and to Hillesden (Direct Legal & Collections) on 03/08/06 enclosing £1 fee with each.

Nothing heard from Hillesden as yet. Received this letter back from Ruthbridge.

Date 2/8/06
Our Ref xxxxxxxxxx
Client Name Direct Legal & Collections
Assigned From Citifinancial Europe
Client Ref xxxxxxxxx
Balance £2216.01

Dear Mr JC,

As we have been unable to contact you by telephone, it is essential that you call our office immediately, in order for us to deal with the issues that you have raised in your correspondence regarding this debt.
Please therefore contact our office on the above telephone number, quoting our reference number as stated.
Yours sincerely,

I then decided to Data Protection Act Citicards and Hillesden (enclosing £10 Fee) on the 3rd August 2006 still heard nothing from Hillesden as yet (so still waiting for CCA compliance).

Received standard form from citicards requesting ID for DPA Statements (returned completed on 7/8/06)

Have now received this letter from Citicards.

Dear Mr JC

Re: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter in which you have asked us to provide copies of your agreement with CitiFinancial under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and documentation in relation to registration of the default notice on the above account.

I have to inform you that we are under no obligation to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement, or a statement of account, under any sections of the Consumer Credit Act as we no longer have a contractual relationship with you and nor are we seeking to enforce any agreement against you. Your right to be provided with this information from CitiFinancial under the CCA ended with the termination and assignment of your debt to Hillesden.

Additionally there is no legal requirement to provide a copy of the original default notice sent to you on the 30th June 2005 or any deed of assignment. The deed of assignment is a confidential business document. All an assignee is required to provide you is notice of the same which you have clearly had since you are in communication with Hillesden.

Having spoken to the Data Protection Officer I understand that you also appear to be requesting copies of the statements for this account under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998. I note that in your letter of the 25th July you expressly do not acknowledge ANY debt to our company. If this is the case are you suggesting that this is not your account? If so, have you reported this to the Customer Complaints unit? I would be grateful for your assistance in reconciling this anomaly.

Please find enclosed a cheque in the name of xxxxxxxx for £1 in respect of the original payment.

Please write to me at the above address if you have any questions about this matter.

Signed by

Brian Smith
Solicitor.

So my questions are:

1. was i correct in CCA and DPA to Citicards and Hillesden?

2. Do they have to comply with CCA even though they state 'we no longer have a contractual relationship'?

3. Is there a requirement to provide assignment details?

4. I don't remember receiving a letter telling me they were assigning it.

5. Most of the balance Citicards/Ruthbridge/Hillesden are requesting is Charges (Statements I have currently have over £500 of charges on and I only have about 6 statements).

6. Whats my reply to the Citicards and Ruthbridge Letters? or should I wait and see if Hillesden Default?

7. As Citicard added the charges then surely they should repay them?

Many thanks for any help.

JC

Similar Threads:

**MARTIN3030** · 8th August 2006 20:04

This is very interesting.
So the banks are confirming they have no further acknowledgement of an account once they sell it.
In that case if true then the DCA icon

bears full responsibility and therefore must be the one to direct everything to.
I am still of the opinion tho that if the bank was first to default on account of wholly being caused by penalty charges then there surely must be redress later.
Also if they dont have anything further to do with it........then how come they are settling claims ?
I would really like to know if what they are saying is totally correct since it would answer a few brick walls I have come up against with both of these same people.

Zooman · 8th August 2006 21:46

Sorry to it short but I am pressed for time tonight.

1. was i correct in CCA and Data Protection Act to Citicards and Hillesden?

No they sold the debt all responsibilities transferred Hillesden

2. Do they have to comply with CCA even though they state 'we no longer have a contractual relationship'?

No they do not their duty of care was also sold on.

3. Is there a requirement to provide assignment details?

No, I don't where that one has come from but you are the 3rd today

4. I don't remember receiving a letter telling me they were assigning it.

You must of done as they said you are in contact with the DCA icon

they do not have to write you themselves.

5. Most of the balance Citicards/Ruthbridge/Hillesden are requesting is Charges (Statements I have currently have over £500 of charges on and I only have about 6 statements).

Not sure of your point

6. Whats my reply to the Citicards and Ruthbridge Letters? or should I wait and see if Hillesden Default?

Wait and see if they default on the CAA request

7. As Citicard added the charges then surely they should repay them?

I am working on this watch this space.

Zooman · 8th August 2006 21:51

Originally Posted by MARTIN3030

This is very interesting.
So the banks are confirming they have no further acknowledgement of an account once they sell it.
In that case if true then the DCA icon

bears full responsibility and therefore must be the one to direct everything to.
I am still of the opinion tho that if the bank was first to default on account of wholly being caused by penalty charges then there surely must be redress later.
Also if they dont have anything further to do with it........then how come they are settling claims ?
I would really like to know if what they are saying is totally correct since it would answer a few brick walls I have come up against with both of these same people.

Martin the default should get re-registered in the DCAs name but still on the same date etc..

What they are saying if all true.

IMO I find people get very confused between when a DCA is running a collection service for the debts and when they have brought it.

**MARTIN3030** · 8th August 2006 22:06

So they have to re register the same date ie if the default was 2/2001 then the same date applies ?

So limitation would run from there.
If an acknowledgement was made of the debt say in 4/2004 then the 6 years icon

start from there again ?
There is confusion on the 6 year listing on the credit file.
What scenario apart from it being manually removed ends the 6 years is it after the 6 years becomes totally spent ?

Zooman · 8th August 2006 22:42

Not sure I am working on it. You see the issue as I see it is not the does the debt exist from say 1998 but that you had 6 years icon

to do something about the penalty charges and you did not. So the real question is

if the creditor is still chasing the debt does the limitation act apply on debts before 2000. Simple answer is no not if they are acknowledging the debt every time they send you a letter or take payment.

But how do you deal with it, this is what I am working on.

**MARTIN3030** · 8th August 2006 23:04

Yes I think I recall you saying this in another post.

The issues relating to people claiming from banks for closed /sold accounts to recover penalty charges is in iteslf a task.
However where there is a DCA icon

chasing the same person for money relating to the same account ........is proving a bit of headache.
The process of claiming the charges from the bank is very well explained and everyone knows how to do this.

The issues of dealing with the dca are not so.

I see the number of claims where people are trying to address the two together is quite large.

Once we can have a clearer process laid down as to how the 2 should be followed through then I expect there will not be half the threads there are on this.

For example (and I know you are working on this ) If a dca is informed by you that their debt has been construed entirely by penalty charges.......they are informed that the bank has paid out on your claim........and they continue to try and recover this from you then they could not later deny knowledge of this in a court.
There is no reason to believe a claim could not be submitted against them for damages and removal of the default.

**jannercobbler** · 8th August 2006 23:34

1. was i correct in CCA and Data Protection Act to Citicards and Hillesden?

how can I prove they sold the debt if they won't prove it and that Hillesden isn't part of them?

2. Do they have to comply with CCA even though they state 'we no longer have a contractual relationship'?

surely the original creditor needs to supply the CCA request also?

4. I don't remember receiving a letter telling me they were assigning it.

I only know because I got my credit file and the amounts are the same?

5. Most of the balance Citicards/Ruthbridge/Hillesden are requesting is Charges (Statements I have currently have over £500 of charges on and I only have about 6 statements).

The point is I don't owe the amount they say as the balance is mostly made up of unlawful charges.

new questions then?

8. If Citicards has no responsibility why have I been asked to confirm ID and they will send statements/transactions?

9. If Hillesden are new owners do I get them to repay charges or Citicards, adding interest icon

at Citicards rates plus charges, I will more than likely have positive balance? (I know Zooman is working on this).

**MARTIN3030** · 9th August 2006 00:31

Reading between the lines It looks like these are issues Ashley is unclear on but no doubt he will be back with those answers.

Zooman · 9th August 2006 00:39

1. I stand by my earlier statement Hillesden will hold your agreement.

2. No, they do not hold a agreement with you any more they sold it on.

4. Hillesden will have written to inform you that you owe them money. Citicards do not have to write to you.

5. You will know more when they send statements.

8. I take it you have made a request under the Data Protection Act which is a separate law they still hold information about you so need to send it on, this has nothing to do with CCA or who owns the debt but simply that you have made a request under the law for information they hold on you. What helps in these matters regardless at what point the account is at they have a legal record keeping duty to keep this info for 6 years icon

for auditing reasons.

**jannercobbler** · 9th August 2006 01:08

1. I never signed a CCA agreement with Hillesden nor have they asked me to. also that is as long as Citicard passed on any agreement will wait and see what happens in next 10 days including weekends?
2. How can a CCA agreement be legal if it was sold on as you never agreed to this?
5. Agreed I will know more when statements arrive.
8. yes have made a request under Data Protection Act see first post.
9. unanswered? Surely Hillesden will not refund charges as it is charges that Citicard added? If they do can I charge interest icon

at contractual rate i.e. Citicards rate 26.9%?

Sorry Question mad today.

10. Should I respond to Ruthbridge? Or wait for hillesden?

Zooman · 9th August 2006 01:20

1 & 2. You agreed to both points in the contract so forget it.

9 & 10. As I have said in the forums a few times and my first post here "I am working on this watch this space" if I share my thoughts before I check all the law behind it I will be doing all who read it a disservice I hope you understand.

I will share my thoughts within 3 weeks at the most, this may seem a long but I am using my companies legal resources to investigate this and using my free time.

**jannercobbler** · 9th August 2006 01:25

will await your learned response. within the timeframe you have given I will also know if Hillesden has responded, and should hve hopefully obtained my DPA response from Citicards.

any thanks

**MARTIN3030** · 9th August 2006 07:44

Originally Posted by jannercobbler

1. I never signed a CCA agreement with Hillesden nor have they asked me to. also that is as long as Citicard passed on any agreement will wait and see what happens in next 10 days including weekends?
2. How can a CCA agreement be legal if it was sold on as you never agreed to this?
5. Agreed I will know more when statements arrive.
8. yes have made a request under Data Protection Act see first post.
9. unanswered? Surely Hillesden will not refund charges as it is charges that Citicard added? If they do can I charge interest icon

at contractual rate i.e. Citicards rate 26.9%?

Sorry Question mad today.

10. Should I respond to Ruthbridge? Or wait for hillesden?

10 days including weekends is not right.
Earlier it was thought 12 days inc.......however it was recently confirmed by TS that it is in fact 12 working days.
An offence is comitted if no supply 1 month after the initial 12 woking days.

**jannercobbler** · 9th August 2006 12:24

10 days including weekends is not right.
Earlier it was thought 12 days inc.......however it was recently confirmed by TS that it is in fact 12 working days.
An offence is comitted if no supply 1 month after the initial 12 woking days.

was meant to be Excluding not including....lol they have already had 3 days so another 10 days excluding weekends wil be 13 days.

**MARTIN3030** · 9th August 2006 12:53

Just

just been looking at my folders I sent my cca request to Hillesenden on 5th July and I have a proof of posting for 6th,Clearly their 12 working days were up on 21st July and their month is up on 21 August .
I am looking at the 2 pieces of stat law in which a claim against their default could be launched. One would be a section 13 of the data protection act and a claim for distress icon

but I am unclear as to whether the original defaulter would need to be sued first.

Zooman · 9th August 2006 23:53

Janner

I forgot to say all responsibility now rest with Hillesden.

**jannercobbler** · 11th August 2006 20:49

well still no response for Hillesden as of yet. so that's 6 working days they have had so far.

Here's hoping nothing comes through next week.

Zooman I haven't responded to the letter from Ruthbridge and not had anything from them either. Hope that's right?

JC

**jannercobbler** · 12th August 2006 16:21

Just received this letter from DLC (Hillesden)

Dear JC

Thankyou for your letter dated 2nd August 2006.

I have reviewed your file and have noted that your address of (my old Address) was supplied by out trace department. I now need to clarify that the information that we been passed is accurate and would appreciate if you could confirm if you have previously resided at (an even older address).

Your request for documentation on the above account has been noted but before we can provide this information we need to establish that the details we hold are correct.

Alternatively, please contact me on the telephone number below so that we can discuss this matter further.

yours sincerely

A Person.

Questions then?

1. I had confirmed my old address in the original letter too them dated 2nd August but not my even older address?

2. Should I confirm my even older address with them?

2. Does the 12 days for CCA still continue from 3rd August? Also does 40 days DPA continue from 3rd August? Or do both restart from a future date if I have to confirm my even older address?

Many thanks

JC

**jannercobbler** · 18th August 2006 08:47

only 2 days left for Hillesden / Citicards to supply the CCA.

Thread: confirmation required ref: cca act compliance.

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