Thread: RBS CCA Valid or not? Please help

Hi all,
have been following the site for a while and using all the great advice to send CCA's to RBS and MBNA(seperate thread). On requesting the CCA from RBS with the standard letter template and hearing nothing I sent 2 subsequent letters declaring the account in dispute. I then received a letter and documents as attached RBS let 1 1 to RBS let 1 10(attached). After several phone calls were I declared the account in dispute i then received letter 2 (RBS let 2 1 and RBS let 2 2 attached).
From the first letter received is it correct that the account is not in dispute and from the second letter what would now be my next course of action.
I greatly appreciate any advice anyone can give,

many thanks
JC99

I have the docs scanned but am having trouble attaching( Iam new to this), I am doing something obviously wrong but cannot see it - any ideas
thanks

Paul, Silverfox

many thanks for the fast responses. Hopefully the images below show the CCA info received from RBS. Do you think this complies or do I still have a case? I am getting texts now saying I must ring them immediately. Hope someone can help/advise.











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Paul, Silverfox

many thanks for the fast responses. Hopefully the images below show the CCA info received from RBS. Do you think this complies or do I still have a case? I am getting texts now saying I must ring them immediately. Hope someone can help/advise.
What should my next course of action be now?










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Here is the second letter received from RBS

Seems they have just sent generic copies of agreements and so are still in default of your request. I would send them something like this - AMEND TO SUIT:


Dear Sir/Madam,

Re Account: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx and my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Thank you for your letter dated xx 2009, the contents of which are noted.

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xx 2009 I requested that you supply me with a copy of the original signed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. Your response to me on the xx has failed to comply with my request. Without production of the alleged agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to xx, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a) the state of the account, and
(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.
(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;
Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states:

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

To clarify S.61(1) states:

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless:
(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and
(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and
(c) The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following :-

1.Number of repayments;
2.Amount of repayments;
3.Frequency and timing of repayments;
4.Dates of repayments;
5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced.

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as xx become compliant with my request. As xx are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect:

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file.
All collection activities cease with immediate effect until CitiFinancial comply with my request from date xx 2009.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection:

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states:

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

What I Require:
I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such. May I respectfully suggest that in the obvious absence of a legally binding agreement as outlined above, that the balance on this account be returned to zero, and all liabilities discharged and any entries which refer to missing payments be removed from Credit Reference Agencies to whom you report.
I require that you comply with my request within 14 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well.
No other correspondence will be accepted.
Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.
I trust this out lines the situation.

Yours faithfully,
JC99


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Please, if you use this letter be carefull to edit accordingly - there is nothing so amateur as to leave xx's in - its a bit of a give away.
Someone more experienced may want to confirm this is the right type of letter to use in the circumstances.
Best of luck!.

All,

Have received the following from RBS and have checked my credit rating which is now in tatters. I really don't know what to do next, do i arrange to pay them or am I still on the right track?
Any help is much appreciated.
On another claim with MBNA they told me today that s78 is no longer valid - is this correct.?
Thanks

Can you post up the default notice.