Thread: LetUsBegin vs Egg/DLC

Hi All,

Please could I have some advice on the following situation. I have an Egg credit card from Feb 2004, outstanding balance circa 6.5k. Last year around June, they put me on a reduced payment plan, i.e. froze interest for 6 months up until Dec 2008, due to financial difficulty. I completed this successfully, but recently due to further financial difficulty I've had problems meeting the monthly payments and missed a couple around April to July and some payment's have been below the minimum amount.

Around July this year I checked my credit score and found they had issued a DN (no surprises there), and have since instructed 'Direct Legal & Collections' to manage the account (not sold to them only acting on eggs behalf).

I've been back and forth with DLC between August & September, and tried to CCA request them. They wrote back claiming that I had to write to the original creditor since they (DLC) do not own the debt and are acting on egg's behalf. I found a template response to this and quoted the following section of conusmer credit law:

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

They sent first another bizarre letter, along the lines of, why don't you wan't to be friends with us, real friends exchange phone numbers blah blah, we'll be nice promise etc.

Since then they sent a most recent letter saying they will possibly send secret agents round and flashy thing me after stripping me of the little assets that I have, and also a day later sent a follow up letter bascially re-iterating that I have to ask the original creditor for the CCA, and thus this brings us to the present day.

I just wanted to ask, am I correct with the quoted part of law above, and thus can I continue down the route of forcing them to pass on my request to egg. or do I have to write to egg myself. DLC seem quite determined to not pass on the request, even though they obviously must be in contact with egg since they are 'acting on their behalf', one would think this included passing on information from myself?

I've seen on other post's over the past year that DLC have actually passed the CCA request's on to egg, and then sent out letter saying 'we haved passed your request onto our client'. So what they are doing now looks like a change of approach.

Any way thanks for any advice on this, I actaully intend on sending a letter back to DLC re-requoting the section of law above about them being required to pass on my request since they are acting on egg's behalf, and also to re-iterate that I have specified communication in writing only, so any attempts to send the MIB's round will result in police being called for tresspassing.

I realise that this eventually could end up in court, but I have made a decision to fight until the end, using every aspect of the law that is available to me, as this is affecting my life and marriage.

LetUsBegin

Yes, you are right - 100%. They should do this, but that notwithstanding, is there a problem for you to CCA Egg yourself, because if the account is from 2004, then its pretty likely to be non-compliant, as I am pretty sure that while they had given up the "Egg Card Agreement" heading and gone to "Credit Card Agreement", they were still talking in terms of an "Approved Limit" rather than a Credit Limit.
Certainly when I got mine I made the request to ARC rather than directly to Egg, but when it arrived the covering letter was from Egg.
I would guess what they are doing in your case, is simply a means of keeping the pressure on, rather than having to stand back while the (probably non-compliant) documents come through. Of course your reply can quite properly be that you have CCAd Egg and are not prepared to deal till you find that they (Egg and DLC) have a compliant agreement. They will say "of course we do so gies the money". But clearly till they come up with the goods there is no chance of them being able, for instance, to get to Court for an order to make you pay.
By all means send them another letter, just dont expect it to work. This is not to say that it wont, but that if you have no expectations you are less likely to be disappointed. I used to be really upset by some of the things they said in their letters (and I dont just mean Egg or ARC or DLC), but most of them are just talk. If I had had half the "doorstep collections" that they have threatened me with, my doorstep would be worn out. I havent seen a single one (though i have used the "tresspass" letter). Always remember, this isnt about being "right" or being "legal" - its about getting you to pay them money (that you might well not have, or at least cant afford - but they aint interested in that).
Believe me this is not an easy road you have set out on. I can well appreciate from personal - and ongoing experience - that it will affect you personally and your most immediate relationships. But if you can show that you are informed, are determined and not going to be pushed around by the (frankly often ridiculous) threats that they make - once they know that, things can often be a lot easier. This site, in that respect, is a major resource both for information and also personal support. Keep pitching

Hi Thanks for the response and advice.

I don't wan't to cca Egg directly, as the DLC will keep bashing me from one side whilst I use the other arm to battle egg.

If egg send me a duff cca and I dispute this with egg, I think DLC will just ignore and keep attacking, and may have egg also at me too.

I prefer just going back at DLC as they are legally obligated to provide the CCA since they are chasing the debt.

The problem with my approach, is that egg could instruct legal action, at which point I still don't have the cca, and therefore no defence. Even if I prove to the judge that DLC failed to fulfil their duty ie provide cca since they are acting on egg's behalf, I would still be in court with a CCA I'm seeing for the first time. I'm going to try them again, with the CCA with a view to biting the bullet and going direct with egg, will keep all updated, any more comments would be appreciated

Thanks

LetUsBegin

Hi All,

After sending the first letter, i.e. request and then subsequent cca default letter after 12 + 2. I now want to send the below account in dispute letter to DLC, who seem to be trying their best to ignore my request. At least if it goes to court, I can prove that I took the necessary steps to obtain the information from them.

Please could someone have a look at the letter below, and let me know of any points I should add or and other comments would be greatly appreciated.
"
Reminder for request for copy of alleged credit agreement under Section 77/78 of the ConsumerCredit Act 1974

I wrote to you recently requesting a copy of a valid consumer credit agreement. Royal mail confirms that you signed for this letter on the 03/09/09. Since you failed to respond to my initial request which you signed for on 17/08/09, I informed you that you are now in default of my request. I should have received a copy of the consumer credit agreement by 1st October, but as I have not received this document, this account is now in dispute.

Please refer to the penultimate paragraph my previous letter dated 01st September 2009:
“Please conduct all communication with me regarding this account in writing only.”
I do not give consent for any other form of communication. If you choose to violate this, I will respond to any attempt by your representatives to visit my home address by reporting you to the police for illegal trespass. I will also forward a complaint to the OFT informing them of your practices.

As mentioned above this account, is now in dispute since you are unable to send me proof of the alleged agreement which exists between myself and your client."

Thanks All

LetUsBegin

I think that looks very reasonable Letusbegin - too reasonable for these muppets imo.
Please make every effort (and I know its not easy - we have all "fallen from grace" on this one) to stick to your guns:

1. when they call remind them of your requirement only to deal with the matter by correspondence and not on the phone. You will seldom get anywhere with these people on the phone. They have their agenda and that is all they are interested in. I know I have had plenty letters from them and plenty phone calls but the latter are always much more unreasonable than the former (though that is not to say that the letters are reasonable - just less unreasonable and a bit more polite)
2. that the account is in dispute. Frankly, I sometimes wonder if a DCA or lender can spell dispute never mind understand the concept, and certainly they seem unable to recognise one ever. If they call or write before they send you the documents that you have properly requested, remind them that they are out of time (in terms of statute) for providing these and that until they do the account is in dispute and you will not be dealing with them until they have fulfilled their statutory duty.

When it does come through, get it scanned and posted up here so that the experts (not me!) can pick it apart and tell you why its non-compliant, and you can then tell Egg.

Hey Thanks Seriously fed up,

Those are great points, I will do as you suggested, when I eventually get the documents through.

LetUsBegin

Hi all

i too am watching with interest,last year i fought a losing battle with Egg/dlc
.....in truth between them they both drove me to throw in the towel.in 2004 whilst using and paying off my egg credit card,i was phoned to be told i was pre approved for a £17,000 egg loan @7.9%,at that time things were going well and i accepted. 3 years later a divorce and custody battle threw a spanner in the works. I worked hard with my creditors and was fortunate with all bar egg,they would not accept my reduced payment offer and instantly involved DLC.it was apparent from the start that DLC simply wanted a charging order and were not prepared to negotiate after months of letters and calls i decided to concentrate my efforts on seeing my kids.Within weeks DLC sucsessfully applied a charging order on my property to the tune of £19,000.In a last gasp effort i attended the court hearing and argued that this was an unsecured debt therefore shouldnt be allowed to be secured due to my divorce.The judge (merrick)simply said...im afraid i cant help you.On the up side i do know get my girls every weekend. In short i wish you all the best against these people i hope your circumstances are different to mine,because it wont be easy i would have fought long and hard had things been different, Please fight on and right some wrongs.

ALL THE BEST Stuart

Hi m&m

I wish i knew about this site then! My agreements are from 2003 & 2004,I read on here that the reason Egg gave the loan was because the egg card agreement was so flawed

Originally Posted by sbward

Hi m&m

I wish i knew about this site then! My agreements are from 2003 & 2004,I read on here that the reason Egg gave the loan was because the egg card agreement was so flawed

That seems consistent with their behaviour since then - most notably taking "approved limit" out and replacing it with "credit limit". They do know - all they are doing is trying to limit the damage to them, no matter who else it damages (eg sbward - as M&M says, a rotten story, and I am really sad to read it - though getting to see your girls regularly is definitely the upside). Btw, how did the size of the loan relate to the size of the credit card debt - i would guess that the former is about 2 or 3 times the latter? In other words, not only do they get you off a dodgy credit card agreement, but get you deeper into the myre as well. Nice people

Hi s.f.u

Good guess! my original Egg card balance was around 4500,and as you rightly say, on digging out my agreement it clearly states "approved limit" ive also read on here that their loan agreements circa 2004 were also flawed

Update:

DLC Muppets after receiving my latest letter re, account in dispute due to lack of CCA, have sent a letter saying they are closing the case, and passing back to Egg to resume collection... Still banging on about law states you must contact the original creditor.

So now I guess egg are going to send the account to another DCA, to try and collect or possibly a solicitor, but we'll see.

LetUsBegin

I wouldnt jump to that conclusion Letusbegin. The last DCA I had to deal with from Egg sent my case back to them about end August. I know other Egg cases have been sent back. But if they are like me there is nothing but an ominous silence. I cant help but feel they are waiting for the result of the Cardiff case

Yes you could be right SFU, the upcoming court case, if it swings in our favour will probably force Egg to completely change their approach with us. Of course if it does'nt then...

It's hard not to speculate seeing as it will have such a massive impact on probably thousands of people, and also egg themselves. One often wonders whether the case will be dealt with purely based on the facts or whether the economic climate etc will sway the decision, I guess only time will tell.

LetUsBegin

Update,

I got a letter today from FredrickSon International Limited, stating letter before action, and pay full amount in seven day's etc. Give away first line states 'Our Client Egg Banking PLC.' This suggests they are acting on behalf of egg and have not bought the debt. I intend to send the account in dispute letter, but thinking if I should cca them also? It did'nt seem to make a difference with direct legal and collections, also not sure on the actual status of the account, i.e. if idefaulted the account with one DCA, does this carry over to the next one. Or do I have to start from scratch, i.e. 12+2 days etc.

Any advice welcomed as I intend to send some form of response today or tomorrow at the latest.

Thanks all

LetUsBegin

if you have arleady CCAd Egg (or DLC - same thing as they have to go back to Egg for this) and nothing has come back, they are out of time, then I wouldnt bother. Why spend another £1 asking them a question you have already asked and not got an answer to. You have asked for the goods, they havent supplied so there is a clear dispute. I would remind Freddie's that Egg are in breach of OFT guidelines by passing the debt on to another DCA.
MIGHT be an idea to copy Egg in on this just so as they cant say they didnt know.

Thanks for your response SFU, I was thinking about one other thing on this. I have'nt actually had a cca from Egg or DLC, so I think while I will reply to Fredrickson with your points below, I should also SAR egg, which I have'nt done yet, just to get the information out of them once and for all.

I was hesitant in doing this before, as I moved address about a year ago, and DLC traced me, now Fredrickson have also traced me. I figured I didn'nt wan't to contact egg directly with my new address, so as not to confirm the fact that I moved without telling them. The plan was to get them to contact me via the third party info passed to them by DLC, then I engage with them at that point.

So far it's not worked and I think that should this go to court, egg will send all the legal stuff to my old address then I won't have a leg to stand on as I won't be able to attend since I'll not know when the court date is.

Thinking about all this now, It does'nt matter whether I confirm my new address directly with egg or let them contact me first. The real issue is to get the cca agreements to see if it's unenforcable, and check whether I was miss sold PPI, and proceed from there. I guess I was doing the head buried in the sand thing. Anyway any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks All

LetUsBegin

bump