Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder Willo53 Novitiate

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    Default Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Hi All,

    I have a major problem with the Money shop trying to play dirty and get more money off me. Back in 2006 I had financial problems and was set-up on a payment plan to pay off 6/7 cheques that I could not pay or roll over.

    This went to debt collectionicon comapany called Bryan Carter who stated they were acting on behalf of Money Shop. I paid the full balance off in June 2009 and had a letter to that affect stating the account was settled on full and had the money shop account number on the letter.

    2 days ago I receive a default notice letter from the money shop stating 344.00 is still owed on the account,a glaring error I expected as I had the letter stating account paid in full.Spoke to Money shop debt line who stated they would look into and get back to me, I faxed all the documents off.

    This moring I get a call from an advisor stating it is valid and this was an amount sent to another debt collection company called Fredericks and needs paying. I stated I had paid over 800 to Bryan Carter and the letter states the same account number is paid in full, she said it must have been there additional charges.

    I told her I would be seeking legal advice as this is completely underhand and a legalised robbery in a way. I am positive they will not drop this and will enforce the default.

    Can anyone advise if they had similar issues or what steps I need to take to combat this.

    Thanks

    Willo53


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Send them the "prove it" letter...will add link in a sec...


    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ng-of-the-debt


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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    In this case stand your ground and give them nothing. You should advise them of this in writing (Recorded Delivery) and send them a copy of the letter stating that the account is settled, Furthermore, forward a Subject access requesticon asking for details of all charges applied to all accounts. (Letter available on this site as I only hold the Scottish version)
    Next move lodge a claim for the recovery of all charges. At that stage keep us posted and someone will pick up on it and point you in the right direction.


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder Willo53 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Thanks for the responses

    I had been to the local money shop office and had it photocopied so they in possesion of that.

    I have just been to my bank today and 250 in a card payment has Bern taken out which I know nothing about.I have this sinking feeling it will be that bunch of cowboys at it.I've now cancelled my card,but will not find out the requestor until a couple of days when it shows on my statement.

    Is there any letter I can send to ensure they don't enforce the default as the balance is highly disputed?

    Cheers

    Willo53


  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder mjc007.5 Novitiate mjc007.5's Avatar

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Hi Willo,

    One of the many legalised cowboys in this sector and in your case even when you have done the honourable thing and paid them off!

    First thing is that if this extra 250 card payment is either the money shop OR their DCAicon report it to the bank as a fraudulent transaction. You have written acknowledgement from Bryan Carter DCA acting on their behalf that the account has been repaid in full so for the bank it is not even a disputed accounticon - the matter has been settled and they have stolen a further 250 from your account! In the highly unlikely event that this extra was even legit I would make a case for it being written off due to their sheer incompetence!

    I would consider a parachute accounticon - unless you can sustain any further raids and/or your relationship with the bank is good enough to get the funds repaid to you quickly/make an alternative arrangement that you can live with. It is the only way to be sure they do not keep going!

    Then as Welshman and Crocdoc have said - although the prove it letter can be worded in such a way as to attempt to get charges breakdown etc on the quick and cheap without a SARicon (has worked a couple of times for me). As well as complaints to OFT, trading standards etc feel you may need to be prepared to consider small claimsicon - any case they could make would have about as much stability as the titanic!

    Best of luck

    MJC 007.5

    Advice or opinions offered by mjc 007.5 are personal, offered in good faith and without prejudice or liability. Your decisions and actions are your own and should you be in any doubt then please seek the opinion of a fully qualified and insured professional

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  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder Willo53 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Thanks MJC,

    I contacted the money shop head office yesterday and they have confirmed they have taken the money out of my account. I stated my disgust that they could take the money from card without my consent and they proceeded to spout off about how I signed a mandate and under section 41 (i think) it states they have authority to take money from my account if a debt is not settled.

    About to contact halifaxicon and report the fradulant transactions on my account, they could not do it yesterday as it was not showing who the payment was going to.

    The money shop are still insistent that the cheques were split between two different debt collectionicon companies being Fredericks and Bryan Carter and this is were the exess 344 has come from. As noted I have the letter from Bryan Carter stating the same account is settled in full, not sure what this means legally. In theory what is to say in 6 months time they may pull another rabbit from that hat and invent some additional money I owe them!

    Totally prepared to put the effort and time to take this as far as possible, as I am really angry and upset about the whole ordeal - the inconvenience of haivng 250 taken from my account and all the stress of the calls etc.

    I will complete the 'prove it' letter and Subject access requesticon. Is there any additional letters I can send from a litigation threatening letter or are they two letters pre-requisites I need to do.I feel this bunch of cowboys are certain to breached some rules or laws and I want them pay for there behaviour.

    thanks for all your help so far.

    Cheers

    Willo53


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    I was contacted by Moneyshop (1st crediticon was the DCAicon) regarding an old loan agreement last week...

    Never paid a penny or acknowledged the debt in 6 yearsicon so I know they haven't a hope in hell of doing anything about it.

    Doesn't stop them from doing it though lol


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder Willo53 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Spoke to halifaxicon yesterday and they were less than helpful.spoke to some old battleaxe who said it could be put down as fraud as I have given my card details previously,what a joke!she put it down as a disputed payment but I don't hold much hope in getting back with halifaxs help!

    Will send the prove it letter tomorrow and considering when would be the best time to raise a small claimicon?I would be looking for more than 250 due to the stress and out of pocket costs of having the 250 stolen,had to sit in all weekend!

    The money shop should be closed down permently!


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Hi Willo,

    I got similar from my bank initially - there is NOT a perpetual right of access to your account (although they will argue to the contrary - conveniently it appears only this "type" of trader seems to enjoy this privelidge - I have a recording of a bank worker telling me this!). They are trying to make you pursue it as a dispute with the "trader" but if no joy I would be complaining to all you can about the halifaxicon as well. In your case particularly there is documentary evidence that you could reasonably and with due diligence have considered the matter closed - taking an additional amount after that time is fraudulent!

    On a maximum 700 (7x100 cheques) debt they have you owing at least 1144 (800 already paid and 344 "outstanding"??!)

    Understand the frustration completely but feel probably work on your complaints to OFT, trading standards for now pending response(s) to the prove it letter/SARicon. You might want to start drafting POC for the small claimsicon if you cannot get it back from Halicrap!

    Keep going, this is one that needs fighting - totally ridiculous that they arrive several months after telling you it was paid off doing an oliver!!

    MJC 007.5

    Advice or opinions offered by mjc 007.5 are personal, offered in good faith and without prejudice or liability. Your decisions and actions are your own and should you be in any doubt then please seek the opinion of a fully qualified and insured professional

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  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder T2upNorth Informative T2upNorth Informative T2upNorth Informative T2upNorth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Good advice from MJC as always.

    By the way...it is against OFT guidlines to assign more than 1 DCAicon to a single debt... ( A debt being an account, not a cheque)


  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder T2upNorth Informative T2upNorth Informative T2upNorth Informative T2upNorth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Quote Originally Posted by Willo53 View Post
    Spoke to halifaxicon yesterday and they were less than helpful.spoke to some old battleaxe who said it could be put down as fraud as I have given my card details previously,what a joke!she put it down as a disputed payment but I don't hold much hope in getting back with halifaxs help!

    Will send the prove it letter tomorrow and considering when would be the best time to raise a small claimicon?I would be looking for more than 250 due to the stress and out of pocket costs of having the 250 stolen,had to sit in all weekend!

    The money shop should be closed down permently!

    I would contact Halifax again and insist it was a fraudulent transaction - if the battleaxe disagrees, escalate it to her supervisor, then their fraud department. Don't be scared to name drop either - fosicon, OFT, MP etc. it usually helps to get their attention...


  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder Willo53 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Thanks guys for the support and guidance.

    I felt quite dissapointed in halifaxicon once I came off the phone as I was felt they were blaming me for giving my card details in the first place, but as MJC stated it does not give perpetual right for unlimited usage on my account until I am totally violated. It is like saying if you go the supermarket and they double the cost of the food you have bought on the transaction, this is perfectly ok as you did give them your card!

    I will be contacting Halifax tonight about my unhappiness about the way they have acted so far and state I will be making a formal complaint and contacting other bodies.

    Another thing to consider about them using my card is that they have used the card details I have given them in a different credit agreement( I have two outstanding cheques for 200 due middle of October, which will be paid on this date) now the previous loan in question was with my Natwesticon account and therefore a different credit agreement. Surely the section about unlimted card usage to regain debt they constantly harp on about would only relate to the connected credit agreeement - so is this another breach?

    I am planning a cover letter with my SARicon and 'prove it' letter to give them a introduction into the complaint, I was thinking of name dropping OFT,fosicon,trading standards, FSA, Halifax fraud and media watchdogs as people who I have contacterd already about the chain of events - would this be advisable or should I keep this from their knowledge.

    Additionally, I am thinking about stating the 250 owed has now risen to 350 due to out of pocket costs,interesticon and stress this has all caused.

    How do people think they will respond?

    Cheers

    Willo


  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder Willo53 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    The plot thickens!

    Had all my letters typed out ready to send by recorded delivery tomorrow.rang money shop head office to see if there had been any updates their end.spoke to a handler who could not get their head around what had gone on,she said I need to speak to a senior manager,I will call you back in 10 minutes.

    Got call back and she said we have contacted freds to confirm and won't know until tomorrow,she said I may need bank evidence I have paid.stated I will get a response tomorrow and could get full refund in store in cash.

    If they admit there in the wrong.should I accept the refund or reject and push for more.out if pocket costs,stress,and telephone bills and if they are in breach the Fsa or oft could fine them.

    What are peoples thoughts?

    Thanks

    Willo

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Hi Willo,


    My two pence worth:
    • Continue to push Halicrap through all available channels
    • My inclination (I am in the moderate camp) is that if they back up any offer of refund/to settle in writing then would probably take it. As part of this you can invite them to make an offer of an additional sum in lieu of additional costs, distress etc (as part of a Full and finalicon settlement of the matter). This would be very much a play it by ear scenario - I have had one company who agreed to my request (although they took more from my bank than they could have legally claimed oustanding on the contract!)
    • If you are inclined to be more militant I would still see what they are prepared to offer (and again only accepting written offer) as this would play favourably down the line in any claim (you were "reasonable"). I know there are some rules around exactly what you can claim for expenses, times etc but an additional sum for distress I am not so sure about
    Keep going! Sounds like someone may have realised they have'nt got a leg to stand on! (we live in hope of an outbreak of sanity in the world of "payday loansicon" and DCAs!

    MJC 007.5

    Advice or opinions offered by mjc 007.5 are personal, offered in good faith and without prejudice or liability. Your decisions and actions are your own and should you be in any doubt then please seek the opinion of a fully qualified and insured professional

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  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder Willo53 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Cheers MJC your advice is greatly appreciated.

    Latest Update:

    Received call back today from MS with the reply that they had split the different cheques into 4 cheques and 2 cheques. They said that these two amounts were seperated apart by one month duration in 2006 - November and December. This they claim is where the confusion reigns. I pointed to the fact that I was not contacted by Bryan Carter until 2008 and surely the balance and debt figure by this time (nearly 18 montsh after original debt date) would have been merged together and not be two seperate amounts as they were from the same account. I also added that the balance was in the region of 600-700 when first contact so this would correlate with the total amount.

    At this point the handler hesistated and said she agreed with me and said wait a minute I will put you onto a manager. I was in work at the time and was annoyed about their decision, incompetence and the annoying holding music so hung up.

    I do not see the benefit of conversing with them over the phone so will now communicate via letters solely Then maybe, they may take my words a bit more seriously.

    One last question should my SARicon go to Money Shop or Bryan Carter solictors or both.

    Cheers

    Willo


  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder mjc007.5 Novitiate mjc007.5's Avatar

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Good morning,

    If the DCAs are "acting for" (which I think is what you said earlier in the thread) then SARicon to The Money Shop (others will correct me if I have that wrong! ).

    As T2upnorth says you owe one single debt to the Money shop (and contracted for the same) so they are in breach of OFT guidelines letting two DCAs "act" for them. Someone more wise than me would need to confirm if the rules are the same when the debt is "sold on" to a DCAicon - not sure if they might be have more room in that scenario.

    Generally this needs to be conducted in writing although you might want to speak directly to the supervisor once IF you think there is some mileage in their agreeing to your position (and confirming this in writing).

    Other than that probably a waiting game for now - if you have a specific contract you can post here (without your personal info) then it might be there are holes in that as well!

    Main thing is stick your guns - you have acted with due diligence in paying back an amount which you believed to be contractually owed and subsequently have recieved acknowledgement that this is the case. Other than getting your 250 back (and maybe some more for the aggro) with complaints to all relevant authorities this should end up with one for the good guys

    MJC 007.5

    Advice or opinions offered by mjc 007.5 are personal, offered in good faith and without prejudice or liability. Your decisions and actions are your own and should you be in any doubt then please seek the opinion of a fully qualified and insured professional

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Considering Bryan Carter and Fredricksons are the 'same' splitting the debt will get them NOWHERE in court should they try to do that. Said Bryan Carter is a slippery customer and may NOT have paid all the money due to Moneyshop, might be an idea to SARicon him as well - and of course you can report Moneyshop to Trading Standards and the OFT, use ConsumerDirect to do this.


  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder Willo53 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Money shop taking the p*#s!

    Cheers guys,

    About to send my letter of claim/complaint, and SARicon today via the post. I contacted Bryan Carter solictors via phone yesterday, they have agreed to send my full account history payments, charges etc within the next 3 days.

    I think each cheque the money shop sends back incurs a charge of 25 and additional charges have been applied though courts fees/costs etc. Still there is no excuse for them to conviently forget about 2 cheques and attempt to move the goalposts after the debt has been settled. Still love the The MS morals in which they feel it is totally acceptable to access peoples bank accounts and take as much money as they like.

    The money after being pending for 4 days has now shown on my statements as switch payments by MS.

    So let the games begin, I have a feeling this could be a long and drawn out battle!

    Cheers

    Willo

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