Thread: Andrew1 (for a friend) -v- BC

Do you mind if just I piggy back on this thread briefly as it might be of help ...I'm helping a friend on his cards which are in a debt management plan. He sent a cca request over a year ago and this is what response he got from B/c - due to ill health nothing further was done, but I'm taking up the mantle for him this is what they wrote:

Reference: Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act
Please find the following documents enclosed.

I write further to your letter and the enclosed £1.00 in which you requested information about your Barclaycard Accounts under the above Act.

1. • A copy of your original Barclaycard terms and conditions at the time you entered into the agreements.
   
   • A copy of your current terms and conditions for your accounts.
   
   • The current outstanding balance on your Visa account today is £xxx.60.
   
   • The current outstanding balance on your Mastercard Account today is £xx.
   
   • For both accounts, your next minimum payments are due on the 14th June 2008.
   
   The information we must provide to you under the terms of Section 78 is prescribed by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that a creditor shall give a copy of the executed agreement and a signed statement showing practicable information relating to the account.
   
   Now this is what intrigues me:
   
   The executed agreement in the courts has been interpreted as the original terms and conditions that were given to the debtor at the time their card was sent Further, this letter, including the financial information above, fulfils our requirement of a signed statement showing practicable information relating to the account.
   
   You will be receiving your next statement shortly which will provide you with all the additional information regarding the account.
   
   This completes our obligation to you under S78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Now I've got a rather bad photocopy of 2 pages of t & c's from 1982 and what looks like a newer version, but there's no agreement signed or otherwise either mentioned in the letter as being supplied or in his file....

My question is - what exactly can we rely upon if like the original poster this account were to be stopped being paid on the strength of ' No agreement' ?

What exactly is required for them to litigate?

I'll open a thread myself, but thought it followed on from James Jnr and may be useful to compare answers..kick me off if not

The credit agreement should, in theory, be attached to the initial court claim. In practice this doesn't happen as most claims are started through MCOL, in which case the agreement should be produced when directed by the court.

Without a copy of the executed credit agreement which includes Prescribed Terms etc, a Creditor should not be successful with a court claim.

However, we continue to see cases were a judge will make their own decision based on their (mis)interpretation of the CCA1974.

The best way to avoid such a result is good research and a well-presented case against the creditor.

The executed agreement in the courts has been interpreted as the original terms and conditions that were given to the debtor at the time their card was sent Further, this letter, including the financial information above, fulfils our requirement of a signed statement showing practicable information relating to the account.

This is their attempt to put you off disputing the a/c and should be treated simply as BC's interpretation, which differs to CAG beliefs.

Thanks, but without an agreement surely if litigation were being pursued the defendant would not be able to have proper legal advice?

In my particular case I refer to litigation is not being considered, I am just looking to negotiate a settlement on the strengths we have, one of which being if they haven't got an agreement then they can't litigate...whilst I can see the differences between CAG and Barclaycards interpretations, in the balance of cases you may have witnessed who is coming off better in this argument - CAG or Barclaycard?

Originally Posted by andrew1

I'll open a thread myself, but thought it followed on from James Jnr and may be useful to compare answers..kick me off if not

Might have known I'd be CAGbotted ! - Sign of respect!

Thanks anyway, I'd not got around to starting the thread myself so thanks!

Originally Posted by andrew1

Thanks, but without an agreement surely if litigation were being pursued the defendant would not be able to have proper legal advice?
Sorry, but I don't get the point you are making here.

In my particular case I refer to, litigation is not being considered, I am just looking to negotiate a settlement on the strengths we have, one of which being if they haven't got an agreement then they can't litigate...
BC and others are not sending out credit agreements but this does not necessarily mean they don't have one.

The banks have taken many such cases to court, or at least started to, even where they don't have a properly executed Credit Agreement.

...whilst I can see the differences between CAG and Barclaycards interpretations, in the balance of cases you may have witnessed who is coming off better in this argument - CAG or Barclaycard?

We've seen many cases taken to court by the Creditor but, when properly defended, they discontinue. Or the case is heard and the judge rules in favour of the defendant.

However, cases which we feel the Creditor should NOT win, on the balance of arguments concerning CCA1974, do sometimes go against the defendant.

It's all down to the judge on the day.

Originally Posted by slick132

We've seen many cases taken to court by the Creditor but, when properly defended, they discontinue. Or the case is heard and the judge rules in favour of the defendant.

However, cases which we feel the Creditor should NOT win, on the balance of arguments concerning CCA1974, do sometimes go against the defendant.

It's all down to the judge on the day.

I think you've covered this thanks very much, My first point was really based upon the fact that if you don't have an agreement then how can you defend it or get advice from the proper legal quarters to put up a defence...I was under the impression no agreement - no debt although having not dealt with Credit Card debts of my own as such I'd read on some threads the card companies were using the excuse of the card carrier and it wasn't quite as clear to me as say a loan company agreement.

Anyway, I think we are there, I've written now tonight putting forward a proposal so we'll see what comes of that...

Very much appreciate your input...true cagger (even if you did Bott me! )

Haha,

It was a fair CAGbotting, and you know it !!

Can't have folks hijacking threads, willy nilly.

Let us know what you proposed, and how quickly they refuse.

Thanks, I won't show my hand quite yet, but will report back - I've offered a % as Full and final just to clear this though - and it's reasonable given no legitimate paperwork has been supplied...