Thread: Unenforceable Credit Agreements - Help!

I'm new to these Unenforceable Credit Agreement rules so if I'm a bit dopey, I apologise in advance.

My mum has got quite a lot of debt and I'm trying to help her write a little bit of it off (if I can) down the UCA route. I sent letters out requesting copies of the agreements to MBNA, Lloyds, Santander (it's a House of Fraser card) and Barclaycard.

I've got a few problems and I'd be really grateful if you could give me a bit of advice . . .

1. Lloyds have replied (in a really rude letter!) saying that 'there is no requirement under the CCA to provide you with a copy of the original signed agreement. We are endeavouring to locate a copy of the signed agreement but please be assured we would not have opened a credit card account without having sight of a signed agreement.'

All they've sent me is a copy of the Credit Card Agreement, but surely if they had a copy of my mum's signature, it would be easier for them to have sent that to me, rather than have to fight against proving me wrong? My mum is adamant that she didn't physically sign anything . . .

2. MBNA have replied and sent us a copy of the agreement, complete with NO SIGNATURE. That's clearly unenforceable. But, in my mum's haste, before I could see the letter she had recieved, she borrowed the money to pay off the cards balance (over £12k!). I'm really annoyed, has anyone got any ideas of a way around this? As we know the card is unenforceable, would transactions made after today (before we send a letter requesting the balance be written off) still get written off or would she be accountable for them?

As of today, Barclaycard and Santander have yet to reply, but we're still waiting . . .

Hi Saversam, technically Lloyds are right but there seems to be procedures here that you will note we go through as basically unless they do have the signed agreement then this can only be proven in a court of law.

Best way to get a copy of the agreement is via CPR route. However in the first instance send Lloyds this:

Re: My request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letters sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

My request remains outstanding. An unsigned credit agreement with no personal details on it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account.

A blank agreement neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.
I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.
You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property.
To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

Should you NOT have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.
I look forward to your reply.

GOLDEN RULE don't sign!

With regards to MBNA, I am just not sure, you sure have a hasty mom! By paying it off she has admitted the debt (I believe) so not sure what you can do. Maybe more experienced caggers can help with that one. I had to go into hospital recently and I told my hubby just to date all correspondence in the top right hand corner and don't open anything (you will need that later down the line to prove when you have received anything). Perhaps you could tell you mom to do that and you can both open the post together?

Thanks Reader

Thanks for your help Reader, I've just put a copy of that in the post so hopefully Lloyd's won't be able to find a signed copy of the agreement.

Thanks for your input too Ida, unfortunately there wasn't PPI on the card and my mum doesn't have any statements so im not too sure in regards to charges. I'll have a dig around though to see what I can find.

Since I posted the first post, I've had a letter from Santander (about the House of Fraser card). I'll upload a scan of the letter in a minute. Your comments would be grately appreciated

Sam

Hi Sam, I am not the best with agreements, I have an application form similar to yours and some say it is enforceable and others say it isn't. Technically it is still an application form.

Ida, can you help?