Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
Hi All,
This is my first post, read the FAQ's and quite a few other bits but I can't find much info regarding the differences involved in claiming back bank charges for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
I appreciate this is the 'consumer' action group but i'm sure you all appreciate that many of us small businesses are not at all wealthy & are squeezed by the likes of the banks even more so!
There was some information in the FAQ's stating that businesses should cite a 1977 'business' act rather than the 1999 'consumer' act and also a template 'letter before action' but not much else.
The initial questions that come to my mind are:
1) The 'Letter before action' form in the library writes as 'I would / I am / I calculate etc, shouldn't this be 'we' (as a company) ??
I know its a small point but it seems they'll try to take you apart on any tiny anomalie
2) Other than quoting this 1977 act, is there any other part of the process/wording that should differ from the standard for a limited company??
ANY OTHER USEFUL INFO/TIPS MUCH APPRECIATED !!!!!
We had some very difficult times & think we paid around £3000 in extortionate charges. Now times are only 'fairly' difficult but the money would come in so useful.
Re: A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
Hi Hadenhuff
I claimed as a small business and used the info gleaned from the odd template letters to adjust the rest of my letters and claim particulars to show the 1977 as opposed to the 1999 acts. And the letters are all there to be adapted how you see fit. So if you think it should be we then do it as we.
Limited company - is the same but you have to claim under the companies name and there are tax considerations etc to work out - I dont know much of that side of things I'm afraid. Have a search on Limited Companies as I'm sure I've seen a couple of people doing this.
Re: A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers
Cheers Karnevil,
Some useful information there.
Did you get an ok result with yours?
Would be very interested to hear about what went well or badly from anyone else who has tried reclaiming bank charges for a limited company.....as well as any further info/tips etc.
Re: A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
Hi,
I am claiming charges back for both personal and business accounts at Lloyds. I am a sole trader, so don't have the problems with limited companies. I just wondered if it would be necessary to file a separate claim for the business account than from the two personal accounts, as the legislation is different? I am presuming here that I can claim for both personal accounts in one action?
Thanks for all help,
Kate
Re: A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
Hi Kate
Yes you can claim both personal account together, but the business account seperately.
Be aware if the joint personal accounts takes it over 5k you could be looking at fasttrack as opposed to small claims, which has the risk of paying the defendants costs if you lose, which you won't, but still take it into consideration when working out your claims.
hope that helps
Karne
x
p.s what bank are you with - I'd open your own thread in your banks forum then you'll get more specialist help (specialist in that people will have experience dealing with that bank rather than specialist lawyers etc if you knw what I mean)
Re: A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
Hi
I'm claiming for a Ltd Co from Lloydtsb. I have two companies - nothing grand as I'm the sole director of each. I have been battling now for 7 months and have picked up a number of useful bits and pieces. I'll try and get back to you later as I'm busy at the moment. Be aware though that the Banks (at least Lloyds) will play very hard ball with Ltd Company accounts and you will almost certainly need a parachute account up and running just in case.
Re: A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
There's no problem being a Ltd.
The law citing penalties v liquidated damages is the same and dates back to 1896.
The only thing you cannot rely on is the 1999 regs, but the majority of cases, even for consumers, would not rely on that legislation in any case.
[COLOR=olive][SIZE=1]If you feel that we have helped you, or you would like to help keep this web site running so that others can continue to get their money back, please click the donate button at the top of the forum.
Advice & opinions of Dave, The Bank Action Group and The Consumer Action Group are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.
Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.
------------
Add me as your friend on FaceBook - I need all the friends I can get
Re: A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
Hi,
Further to my previous post... I have run a computer repair business for 15 years mostly for small businesses. I have heard a number of tales of woe concerning banks from customers and what follows are things I have gleaned. I'm not an expert by any means so the ususal disclaimers apply!
Re: A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
Hi,
Further to my previous post... I have run a computer repair business for 15 years mostly for small businesses. I have heard a number of tales of woe concerning banks from customers and what follows are things I have gleaned. I'm not an expert by any means so the usual disclaimers apply!
1) Dave is right - there should be no problem about claiming back penalty charges for a Ltd Company but you may find a few extra hurdles to jump over as the Banks have more obstacles they can put in place.
2) I believe that the DPA does not apply to Ltd companies and although some people have got copy statements from Banks most have not. As you are probably aware you have to keep records going back for 6 years but if you haven't Lloyds will try to charge your company for duplicates. I found the best thing to do was to use on-line banking. At Lloyds you can download your statement entries in chunks as CSV files, then cut and paste into a spreadsheet, run a filter and bingo!
3) If you intend to make more than one claim it might be better to keep them separate. Before I discovered this forum I tried to run three claims at once. The result is that I am dealing with three departments in three places and each one is playing off against the other and it is taking ages to get sorted out
BUT
4) I do know of companies who having made a successful claim for a refund then tried to make a second claim. Their accounts were then closed down almost instantly with consequences for overdrafts, loans, card machines, personal guarantees etc. In these cases the Bank simply pointed to the terms and conditions of Business Accounts which meant that they could do this. I don't know if the "retaliation" bit from the FSA applies to business accounts as well as personal ones. They have got many more opportunities with a business account to find a reason to close it down. I opened a parachute account with Nat West. I was completley open about my dispute with Lloyds. They welcomed me with open arms and so far - no problems.
5) On the more legal side - I found you do need to have a directors meeting so that you can minute and date the company intention to commence court action. A bit tricky if you are the only director!- but write it in the minute book anyway.
I aslo discovered that if a Debenture is in place it is very important that you do not dispose of any assets below their true market value otherwise you could end up refunding the difference in values if things get nasty.
6) If you get any form of refund there are Tax implications - you may need to get advice on this
7) Banks often require a directors personal guarantee for loans. This is particularly nasty if it is "all monies". These guarantees often put people off from tackling Banks as closure of a business account could spell disaster if loans have to be repaid (I also opened a personal account at Nat West!)
There is a faint glimmer of hope - I have been told that in a recent positive ruling the FSA ruled that where a loan had been restructured during its life - the original personal guarantee was null and void. I'm not sure about this yet as I have not had time to check it out but if true it might be useful for some of us.
This all sounds gloom and doom but I don't think it is. The principles of unfair charges still apply and in the end can be claimed back. It is just a little bit more complicated for a Ltd Company because of the side issues. Anyway - I am incensed and I'm not going to let them get away with it even if they do want to play hard ball. I have only a very short time before retirement and I am not likely to forget all the worry, stress and strain they have caused me.
Re: A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
Hi Everyone,
I'm a complete novice in the field of claiming bank charges back. I have no idea where to start & how to find out if I've ever been over charged, or if any of my personal loans or business loans/overdraft that I've had over the years have been unfair in anyway shape or form.
I need someone to point me in the right direction to educate myself in this area. I run a small business as a sole trader & I have had, & paid back plenty of loans over the years.
A little more help on the differences for small businesses as oppose to consumers.
' but not much else.
Reply With Quote
