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Hi everybody. I'm trying to help my parents here, they're snowed under with debt from one of these Black Horse loans, and mainly the PPI which as you can see from the loan agreement below, adds up to a fair whack.
The PPI has basically been sold as a loan on top of the main loan, and interest is being charged on it. Is this fair? Do you think it can be cancelled and claimed back?
Any advice you knowledgable people can give would be hugely appreciated, I'd love to see my parents able to breathe easy for once...
Thanks a lot.
p.s. when they were sold the loan, they were given the impression that the loan would only be available if they took out the PPI, although obviously this isn't on paper anywhere...
Right lets get you started, have you checked the stickys at the top of the PPI forum please have a read because the more you know the better position you will be in.
I see you have the agreement thats a good start as there is no need to send an S.A.R to get it and that saves you 40 days atleast.
Now you need to prepare you first letter to get this back and in order to do that you need to know how much you are claiming.
I can help you with this but i cannot work on the figures alone i need dates also can you post these
I will do you a spreadsheet which you can send with the letter.
This will be a tidy sum which will go some way in reducing the debt
So without further ado i need date loan taken out
Any other questions post here and ill be along to answer.
Great, thanks for the help. Are there grounds for claiming this money back? What are these grounds?
As you can see from the agreement above, the PPI was basically sold as a loan on top of the original loan, with interest accrued monthly. Can they do this? What, legally, would entitle my parents to claim back what has been paid out on this loan? They were as I said pressured into agreeing to it, but there is no evidence of this.
Front loading the policy onto the loan every company i have heard of so far does this its there way of bumping the loan amount and incuring more interest.
Is your mum and dad retired ? do they have medical conditions ? where they asked these questions by the seller.
Have a read of the link i put above and indeed the other stickys at the top of this forum.
Ok here we go. The full page of the copy of the agreement is here:
You can see that the loan amount is £31,500 repayable over a total of 122 months. The total charge for credit is £13,238.40 leaving a total payable of £44,738.40
Now the PPI is sold for £10,267.65 as a lump sum at the beginning of the loan. But this is sold as credit, with an interest rate of 0.597% per month over 122 months, meaning that there is a charge for the PPI of £4,315.
The PPI adds up to £121.53 per month.
My parents spoke to Black Horse about cancelling the PPI, to which they replied with the following letter:
They would be paying £89.13 less per month with no PPI instead of £121.53 less, so obviously they would still be paying for the PPI since the beginning of the loan up until the cancellation date, and the interest accrued up to that point... or something.
Anyway, here's page 2 of the agreement:
Now 2 points to mention here; at no point were my parents asked about their retirement. They are both currently employed but they will both be retiring in the next couple of years, at which point the agreement will be less than half way through. There is no mention of this anywhere on the agreement. Secondly, they WERE pressured into believing that they would have a much better chance of being accepted if they took out the PPI, in fact the seller implied that it was almost compulsory. However, it does state on the agreement that the PPI is optional.
If you can give me some feedback on exactly how to approach cancelling the PPI completely, getting the money refunded and on what grounds to do this it would be much appreciated.
p.s. it's a secured loan so I don't want to go losing them their house
As PPI insurance is a total ripoff and has now been banned from being sold at the point of taking out the loan there is no way they can take you to court in the hope of getting a ccj and a charging order specially if they are still paying the loan.
Right now you can start to get this money back with my help of course.
It is getting late now so i will be back in the morning to guide you though the process and get an excel spreadsheet done for you.
This spreadsheet will tell you exaxtly how much you have paid so far and how much you can expect to get back.
As your parents are due to retire before the loan is paid off this is a clear breach and has been missold.
That demands and needs form looks like it was pre-filed in -is this the case because it should not have been type out like that by them as its for you to answer the questions.
Yes, it was pre-filled in by them as per the telephone conversation. As you say, even if this is wrong of them, it still doesn't address the retirement issue so it looks bleak on their part.
Thanks for your help, sounds promising that my parents will get back what they deserve. I'd love to see their delight when that happens
Talk to you soon. Any more info you need for me just let me know, I'll be on here pretty much all day from now on.
Ok, here's the general text of the letter I intend to send off to them. Thanks to others on here (reidnet, Paintball and Pompeyfaith) for all the bits I've copied
If anyone can suggest amendments or additions then please do so.
Date
My name
Adress etc etc
Dear Sir/Madam
I believe I have been mis-sold a Payment Protection Insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of my Payment Protection Insurance premiums, plus interest paid.
I took out a £31,500 loan with Black Horse LTD on (date) and also bought a payment protection policy which would cost me an extra £14,583.60 over the life of the loan. The total amount of my Payment Protection Insurance premiums plus interest is £(yet to calculate).
I have been mis-sold this Payment Protection Insurance policy for the following reasons:-
1. I am due to retire during the loan repayment period, therefore my employment circumstances will change. I was not asked about this when I took out the loan, nor is this mentioned anywhere in the agreement documentation.
2. I was told that I had to take the Payment Protection Insurance at the same time as the loan or not at all.
3. I was not asked whether I had any other insurance which would cover the loan.
4. I was not told I could buy Payment Protection Insurance elsewhere to cover the loan.
5. I was told that I would stand more chance of getting the loan if I took the Payment Protection Insurance.
6. I was pressured into buying the Payment Protection Insurance.
7. I paid upfront for the Payment Protection Insurance (in the form of extra credit added to the loan agreement) but it was not explained to me that there were some Payment Protection Insurance policies where I could pay monthly.
8. It was not fully explained to me how my repayments would be affected if I cancelled the Payment Protection Insurance part-way through the loan period.
(I intend to insert here details about their weird PPI cancellation fees/repayment amounts, none of which were explained fully on the loan documents)
All of the above points are clear breaches of both FSA regulations and guidelines and the Banking Code of Practice provided to the financial services industry. As a respected financial organisation, you will have been quite aware of these regulations and this makes your organisation's action even more serious. It is poor business practice to say the least.
In taking out a loan with Black Horse, I reserved the right as your customer to receive appropriate information to enable me to take out an insurance product that suited my demands and needs. Black Horse had an obligation to me the borrower, to provide sufficient and appropriate information to enable me to make an informed decision as to the suitability of both the loan and the Payment Protection Insurance to meet my needs and financial circumstances. I should also have been made aware of alternative options available, or comparative costs of similar PPI products from other suppliers, which information as a well known financial institution you would most certainly have had access to.
At no point did I receive any such information, either by letter, document or telephone call which followed the above guideline. The documents that you provided me with do not contain any of the information that I have outlined above and cannot, therefore, be deemed as meeting the standard of care which you should have provided.
I assert that I have been deprived of the right to choose PPI when taking out the loan, and that you have taken advantage of my lack of knowledge.
I reposed absolute trust in your ability as a respected financial institution to provide a reasonable level of care and skill in ensuring that my best interests were met when taking out a financial product with your organisation. This has not been the case and I am extremely disappointed.
I would remind you that the Financial Services Authority takes the mis-selling of PPI extremely seriously. You will be aware that recent investigations by both the FSA and the Competition Commission have found that lenders continue to engage in "poor sales practices".
I request the return of (amount I have yet to calculate) within 14 days of receipt of this letter by you. If you do not comply with my request, I will have no option but to escalate my claim to the Financial Ombudsman Service, who in many cases have imposed large fines on financial institutions who are in breach of regulations.
I trust that you will treat this matter with due haste and diligence.
What's the standard rate of interest one can claim back on this sort of thing? PPI was paid monthly at £121.53. If, say, I want to claim the interest on each consecutive month over 2 years, what is the monthly interest accrued on that sum which you are entitled to claim back?
Ok so let's say, 24 months ago the sum of £121.53 would accrue interest at 8% p.a. which is 8% of 121.53 * 2 (24 months) which equals £19.44 is that correct?
Well I got a reply, and it's as expected. 'We don't owe you anything, you agreed to the terms blah blah blah excuses excuses'.
What's the next step? Send them another demanding letter? Do I go to the fos yet?
Cheers.
FOS IMO gather up all of the correspondence, copy all the documentation to send to the FOS and send the lot. If you phone the FOS first they will most likely give you some advice before you start. They may even allocate you a reference number as fill in part of the form before sending it for you to sign.
Here is a link to help you get the information.
Black Horse have something like 99% of claims for mis-sold PPI upheld by the FOS in favour of the consumer submitting the complaint.
I have no legal training and the advice I offer is a matter of support. Before you commit to any Legal action you are advised to contact a qualified legal practitioner. ------------------------------------------------
Bank charge successes:
Halifax - Full settlement incl interest.
HSBC - Settlement, goodwill no admission of liability about 75% of claim.
RBS - Settlement, goodwill no admission of liability about 70% of claim.
2 ongoing claims for bank charges with HSBC with more to come. (Supreme Court ruling could have upset these claims) They did
PPI Successes
PPI 4 settlements on 9 loans. FOS involvement on 7 added on the 8 % Statutory interest another 30% to both.
2 claims settled in full with LV without FOS involvement.
2 claims settled in full with HSBC without FOS involvement
PPI Claims ongoing with:
Cap one Now with the FOS
Barclays. Paid up today 24/04/10 cheque received for over £4,500 and in the bank.
LTSB still have to decide on this as their SAR production was abysmal. Papers data mixed up documents missing etc
Please do not PM me for advice as it may be sometime before I can respond.
Keep at them. Do not give way and do not accept all they tell you, they will delay and stall for as long as they can to prevent repaying you your mis-sold PPI.
Black Horse PPI. Total rip-off
which as you can see from the loan agreement below, adds up to a fair whack.
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Originally Posted by raccoonboy
