Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
let me state that I am a time served member of CAG and have been involved in many court actions (at a county court level) and until yesterday believed myself well educated in what can and cannot be done by a person acting for a court
I say until yesterday................
I had a claim issued against my Ltd Co for vehicle lease fees, I subsequently lost the claim and judgment favoured them to the tune of around £1050
I contacted the claimant and we agreed settlement via 5 payments
I was to have set up a standing order but had issues with this, so contacted them with debit card details to make payment, which they agreed to
I heard nothing further from them, and then contacted them again for the second payment and giving them authorisation to take payment as before
Unbeknown to me (I have a lot of transactions going through the account and regret I did not check), they had not taken payment on either occasion
Anyway, shortly after I sent the second payment auth through, they obviously contacted a Sherrif enforcement co, who duly applied to a high court and obtained a writ (writ dated June 27th)
Cue a call yesterday from my extremely distressed wife - sheriff at my home (ltd co registered address) and has clamped her car and my mothers car (they had literally just pulled up in my mums car)
Despite stating the car was ppersonal and had been bough many years prior to the company formation, he would not remove the clamp
The only way he removed the clamp from my mothers car was by the chance that my step father had the bill of sale
I heard all this by phone, but work some 2 hours away, so had to get in the car and come home (obviously, as a CAG'er I wanted to see this guys iD and court writ in person)
When I got there I had the impression he was fake so told him to do what he liked and we'd go to the pub, but he carried on a very forceful, condescending attitude (I live in a small road, my entire road witnessed all of this, a few of them (friends) even had the misfortune to speak with him
Anyway, he proceeded to climb into my garden (over a high fence) and then stated he would stay there until the police arrived - this obviously made me realise he wasnt messing around
I had already made offers of part payment which he refused, I tried again but he just said he would take the car and other possesions
So, with assistance from friend and family I paid his total:
£2,100+!!!!
(remember, original debt £1050, also remember the claimant had agreed payment but failed to take it)
So, £1k down, a completely distraught wife (who now feels unsafe in her own home) and a whole street knowing we had a debt
I'm very, very angry at this treatment
I dont have the figures to hand at the moment (had it all on paper) but will post this tmw
From memory, the charges made were as follows:
£50 issue fee
£430 sherrifs fee
Around £390 (3 hours at £130/hr) waiting time charge
Plus VAT and i think something else I have forgotten
They have been paid so the worst part is over, so......
a) can I now sue the original claimant via vicarious liablity for both the amount and harassment/damge to reputation?
b) Do the fees above sound right or have I been screwed?
Thanks in advance for any assistance
omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium
Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional
Re: I believe I may have been screwed over by a HCEO
Which company is this ? If you don't wish to put the name on the open forum then please PM.
Sadly, their tactic worked......you ended up paying the debt !!! and this is WHY bailiffs are acting so discracefully because they KNOW that with the recession it is so difficult to get payment at the door.
The fees that they can charge are laid down by Parliament BUT part of the fee scale provides for "reasonable fees" for attending and it is this clause that is open to abuse.
PS: If the HCEO had clamped 2 vehicles not owned by you then he MUST provide a Notice of seizure of Goods & Inventory. Was this provided?
Re: I believe I may have been screwed over by a HCEO
Hi,
sorry that its taken so long for me to respond, your reply is really appreciated
The 2 vehicles clamped did NOT have a notice of seizure of goods and inventory provided
I am going to be away for the weekend in about an hours time, but I've now managed to scan all the paperwork
On closer inspection I believe the "high court writ" is their own paperwork made to look more official than it is
Not managed to contact Cryodon high court yet to check the validity of the writ itself, but will be chasing this
Heres the paperwork, but also here is a roundup of figures:
Judgment debt was actually £1150 and despite the payment agreement made with the Claimant, no payment was taken so the Judgment debt stated on the paperwork as £1010.39 is odd for starters
Given they have wrongly stated the debt (albeit understated!) does this cause them any issues?
Judgment costs: £140 - correct figure for a high court judgment?
Execution costs: £50 - if the judgment fee was £140, whats this for?
Sheriffs fees: £431.17 - this really gets me - is this a lawful charge?
VAT: £64.68 - OK I S'pose
Waiting time: £120/hr x 3 hours + 15% VAT = £414 - again, lawful? I would hardly see a court upholding £120 hour for being sat in a van as lawful?
omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium
Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional
levy Page 2 - NOTE: appear to be missing a page, deeply suspicous about whats on that page!
Receipt for payment and business card of Sheriff's Office (guy said he actually "represented" the Sheriff's Officer?
Welcome all comments on this
As said before I feel inclined to go down the avenue of action against the original claimaint due to them accepting payment terms but proceeding with High Court without attempting to take the payments
omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium
Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional
Re: I believe I may have been screwed over by a HCEO
The law doesnt provide for bailiffs to charge waiting time. His fee of £120+VAT per hour waiting time is a higher hourly rate than an airline pilot holding the rank of captain working on a premium long-haul airline Airline Pilot Central - Emirates | International therefore his costs are not reasonable. He has not paid any disbursements by sitting in his van outside your property.
Did you pay with a credit card, if do you can do claim a chargeback with your bank under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for breach of contract.
There is no such thing as 'sherriffs' fees. Croydon is not in Scotland.
The law prescribing HCEO fees for collecting unpaid writs (not county court Judgements) is Regulation 13 & Schedule 3 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004. Broadly speaking it provides:
Where the sum due is £100 or less - 5%
Above £100 - 2.5%
Mileage Charges - 29.2p per mile Max £50
Seizure of goods - £2 per site
Walking possession fee. £3.25 a day
Transport and storage of removed goods "Reasonable costs" Not for gain - See Cullighan vs Marston (bailiffs) Group Ltd. It's probably nil.
Valuation of goods - "Reasonable costs" - must be actual disbursements, not for gain.
Sale of goods by auction Up to £100 - 15%
Next £900 - 12.5%
Above £1000 - 10%
Re: I believe I may have been screwed over by a HCEO
This sounds good
My plan is to take the original Climant to small claims as they should not have instructed them in the first place as they had agreed to a payment plan but failed to take payments from valid card details (and I can prove the funds were available at the time of due payment)
I also plan on suing the original claimant for harassment and general damages to business reputation as I consider them vicariously liable
omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium
Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional
Re: I believe I may have been screwed over by a HCEO
Remember it was the HCEO that is charging unlawful fees.
The claimant was sold an expensive transfer-up service by the HCEO firm. Transferring up from the county court does not benefit the claimant, only the bailiff because it enables him to charge higher fees than he otherwise would if he was collecting a county court Judgement (currently £45).
If in doubt, name the HCEO and the claimant as joint defendants and keep us posted with your progress.
Re: I believe I may have been screwed over by a HCEO
Originally Posted by ncf355
falsely representing themselves as having high authority, or something similar?
If you are right its Section 2 of the Fraud Act.
Yhis may not be HCEO's at all, you could be dealing with common fraudsters involved in organised crime. I suggest you contact police who can ask the Organised Crime Unit to make some enquiries.
Re: I believe I may have been screwed over by a HCEO
levy Page 2 - NOTE: appear to be missing a page, deeply suspicious about whats on that page!
this should have the list of goods that they have levied against i think
no 11) the goods seized are all those referred to at 2 but in case there is any doubt the following items are included in the seizure
all goods on property to satisfy the Dept
i hate bailiffs would love to put a hex on them all
I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination
any advice given is from my own personal experience and what Ive leaned on this site
and if you are happy with my advice you might like to make me a star
THE EDGE there is no way to explain it the only people who really know are the ones who have gone over and came back
I believe I may have been screwed over by a HCEO
and have been involved in many court actions (at a county court
level) and until yesterday believed myself well educated in what can and cannot be done by a person acting for a court
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Originally Posted by ncf355
