Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
This is my take on the question of unenforceable debt.
A credit aggreement goes into default, the creditor passes the account to a DCA. At that point the debtor quite rightly requests a copy of the original signed and executed credit agreement and a statement of the account showing all debits and credits.
The DCA pass the debt back to the creditor, as they know without those documents they cannot legally pursue the debt. They may try frightening the creditor into paying but in truth they have no right to do so. So the creditor passes the debt to another DCA and the whole rigmarole starts again.
The debtor should therefore proceed as follows:
CCA the creditor directly, at that point the account is in dispute and cannot be inforced by anyone until the relevant documents are supplied.
The only correspondence that matters now is a letter to the debtor from the creditor containing.........yes you've guessed it "a copy of the original signed and executed credit agreement and a statement of the account showing all debits and credits."
Should anyone contact the debtor whilst those documents are in request, they are in breach of the Consumer Credit Act. The debtor should then write making a complaint to that effect. If the complaint is not dealt ie the requested documents turn up, then after 8 weeks a complaint can then be sent to fos. Eventually there will come a point when the creditor simply runs out of agents who are not the subject of a complaint.
The statue of limitations will eventually render the debt uncollectable.
It all depends on how a 'dispute' is defined, a bank/financial organisation may not think that the account is disputed, and you of course do see it as a dispute (and without an agreement my opinion it certainly is a major dispute as laid out in the Consumer Credit Act)
Don't forget that the OFT say this too - both these below come under the OFT's titles of 'deceptive and unfair methods' and 'physical/psychological harrassment'
2.6 h. ignoring and
/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment
2.8 k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.
PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.
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Hi 42man.............Yip thanks for that.........I've only became a CAGGER this month.........."the penny is really beginning to drop"......
......just wish I'd found this website sooner..........anyhoo I'm feeling so much better about dealing with my debts now, all thanks to peolpe like you.......krj8
PS...........I'm not familiar yet with how to "PROVIDE A LINK TO MY THREAD"....??????
and it would be great if all creditors/DCA's work in this manner adn most unfortunatley don't and won't agree with the dispute and guess what the OFt and fos are as much use as a meerkat on abouncy castle and have agreed with the creditor many times and say take them to court let them decide and donlt take any futher action
ida x
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and it would be great if all creditors/DCA's work in this manner adn most unfortunatley don't and won't agree with the dispute and guess what the OFt and fos are as much use as a meerkat on abouncy castle and have agreed with the creditor many times and say take them to court let them decide and donlt take any futher action
ida x
hi ida...............that has not been my experience. In fact I complained to a DCA recently about contacting me whilst the account is in dispute. They say that they didn't know about the dispute, but have passed the account back to the creditor in question..............so far so good. I have replied to that DCA asking them to prove that they didn't know, as I can show that they must have known. I've given them another 5 weeks to deal with my complaint, as they have already wasted 3 weeks trying to deny their wrong doing. If they cannot refute the validity of my complaint I'll be passing the matter on to the FOS. In that way I can quite reasonable refuse to deal with them again. However tedious this may be, if I keep repeating this process long enough, I'll outlast them.................
How could anyone possibly go to court, if they cannot supply a copy of the original, signed and executed credit agreement.............it is their failures to to so that has caused the whole dispute........
.......so I'm at a loss to understand where you're coming from...........it would seem to me that the FOS are infact supporting the debtor when they advise a creditor to shut up and just take the debtor to court, if they can. The FOS know that by continuing to breach the Consumer Credit Act...........in the way that they do they are infact laying a paper trail that will only serve against them, should the matter ever actually get to court. I hope you can see what I'm saying here.
yes i can see but what i was saying is that you have been lucky, many people are being hounded by DCA's that cannot produce a valid cca and have proceeded with court action on which people have good grounds to defend but unfortunaltey judges don't always seem to understand the cca act itself and some unfortunatley have grnated decress/ccj without cca.
it not always as easy to say this account is in dispute and expect them to accept it
ida x
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yes i can see but what i was saying is that you have been lucky, many people are being hounded by DCA's that cannot produce a valid cca and have proceeded with court action on which people have good grounds to defend but unfortunaltey judges don't always seem to understand the cca act itself and some unfortunatley have grnated decress/ccj without cca.
it not always as easy to say this account is in dispute and expect them to accept it
ida x
Ye...........if only it were the case that creditors realised............befor e they can put an account into default they must have to hand, the original agreement........really is is quite simple + logical.................. ..unfortunately creditors are huge blind organisations filled with people like the "Voegons" in "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy".......form pushing morons.
.........I'm thinking about starting a new thread entitled "creditor are anarchists"
Coping with DCA's
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krj8
Originally Posted by IdaInFife
