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Was hoping someone here could tell me if this agreement is enforceable. Ive been told by the OFT that since this debt was bought by MBNA from HFC they dont have to provide the origninal agreement, just a 'true copy.' Does this mean that they need to provide a signed agreement?
Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.
Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
One of the prerequisites of an enforceable agreement is that the debtors signature must appear on the agreement.
You could send HFC and MBNA a Subject access request which will cost you £10 to each creditor to try to flush out the Consumer Credit Agreement or you could use CPR 31.16.
Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.
Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
Ahh all this CPR31.16 stuff is beginning to make a bit of sense now. Just to make sure I understand - A creditor can choose not to provide the original agreement upon CCA request, just a true copy (which may be unenforceable), but they could pull the original agreement out the hat at a later date and screw me over. Gonna send that CPR31.16 this week, will update when I get a reply.
This account was originally with HFC Beneficial but they took it upon themselvves to sell this debt to MBNA (my account was up to date at that time with no late payments for a couple of years). Could I argue that as any agreement that may exist was entered into with HFC Beneficial, I have at no time given MBNA permission to process my personal information (with credit ref agencies etc)?
Referring to post #5 - yes you have understood the point.
Referring to post #6 - You would need to see the original T&C's supplied with the HFC agreement if there was a clause allowing future creditors being allowed to process your data.
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Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.
Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.
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Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.
Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
Just read through Smt's thread on the same issue - using CPR to obtain the CA. Pretty much resigned to having to go through court to resolve this. I was wondering if the fact I have withheld payments on this account since they defaulted on my CCA request could work againt me in court?
If you put the account into dispute because the creditor did not send an enforceable agreement or comply with your CCA request, then you have a right to withold payments.
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Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.
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Under s78 of the CCA 1974 and associated regulations, they are required to provide a 'true copy'. However, this is not what you think it is - it is a document giving you the basic terms of the agreement, which in fact, they have done. The concept of a 'true copy' goes back to the 1840s when copies were made with quill pens and is certainly not an exact copy. (Having said that, in this day and age, you would though that making an exact copy on a photocopier was actually the simplest option, but apparently not )
What they have sent is a 'true copy' as far as the regulations are concerned but it is not enforceable because it deosn't have a signature on it. They are correct in that they do nt have to provide anyting else under s78 but they mpst certainly do if they want to take you to court, for example. No signature means no agreement means no case. End of.
Steven
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Doesnt a true copy have to contain the prescribed terms though? Dont think any of the prescribed terms are contained in the document above.
MBNA have replied to my SAR today. Sent back my cheque with a letter stating that they require 'positive identification' and example of which could be 'a driving liscence or passport which contains the main cardholder's signature'
If they dont have in their possession a credit agreement with my signature on it I dont believe they will have anything to compare my signature to. Am a bit paranoid they could just lift the signature of any ID I send and whack it on a credit agreement.
I submitted what they asked in the end only because I did not want any further stalling tactics they so like to continue with but posting #11 by supasnooper made interesting reading
UNfortunately the dox are too small to read on my computer. You are right, a true copy should have the prescribed terms. For a credit card they are credit limit, minimum repayment terms and interest rate - I think they are on the 1st page but I can't tell for sure.
The DPA gives them the right to confirm your identity in any reasonable way they wish
Steven
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Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial
My Wins
GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007 NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007 BrighthouseWon unconditionally August 2007 GoldfishWon unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra) Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008
Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.
Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.
I submitted what they asked in the end only because I did not want any further stalling tactics they so like to continue with but posting #11 by supasnooper made interesting reading
Thanks, useful reading there ill be keeping an eye on your thread.
Haggis v MBNA - Enforceable Agreement?
from HFC they dont have to provide the origninal agreement, just a 'true copy.' Does this mean that they need to provide a signed agreement?
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but posting #11 by supasnooper made interesting reading
Originally Posted by Mydogsawestie
