Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
The facts
my husband ran a pub as sole trader of the business.
I worked there as an employee i was not a business partner.
In 2000 he took out a business loan
I signed the application
In 2002 he was declared bankrupt. (the bank was declared as one of the creditors for £5000
He is now discharged.
The bank says i am liable for the debt.
I have been paying £25 a month to keep the collectors off my back
The problem:
The bank is chasing me for the outstanding loan amount. The collection agent name has now changed three times since the first correspondence in 2004.
They have been threatening me with varying things such as court and visits to our home.Also they have asked me to make an offer to pay off the balance they asked for £2000 if i had it at the time i think i would have paid it.
Should i have to pay back the money which my husband has already been declared insolvent for.
It looks as though i will not be able to keep up this payment each month as there is a strong possibility of me losing my job.
Surely this would not mean my debt passing back to my husband again if so why was he made bankrupt in the first place.
Very confusing hey but i bet not to uncommon.
I have kept all the documents sent including the one that referred to me as the sole trader of the business this was incorrect they said it was irrelevant and i had to make a payment offer.
Is this right must i pay ?
Thanks Pipes wife
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11,408
Re: Is this acceptable?
doesn't sound right to me
I've moved you to the Bankruptcy forum, where I'm sure someone will be able to advise
Always happy to help where I can!
Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?
It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"
Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.
The facts
my husband ran a pub as sole trader of the business.
I worked there as an employee i was not a business partner.
Sole traders cant have employees. He is either a sole trader or not.
In 2000 he took out a business loan.
I signed the application.
Under what terms were you required to sign the loan agreement.
In 2002 he was declared bankrupt. (the bank was declared as one of the creditors for £5000
He is now discharged.
The bank says i am liable for the debt.
Ask them to prove it. Unfortunately if you have signed the agreement as a guarantor, then yes, you have a problem.
I have been paying £25 a month to keep the collectors off my back
The problem:
The bank is chasing me for the outstanding loan amount. The collection agent name has now changed three times since the first correspondence in 2004.
They have been threatening me with varying things such as court and visits to our home.
Let them take you to court. If you are liable for the balance the court will only order you to pay an amount you can afford.
Also they have asked me to make an offer to pay off the balance they asked for £2000 if i had it at the time i think i would have paid it.
How much do you allegedly owe now.
Should i have to pay back the money which my husband has already been declared insolvent for.
It looks as though i will not be able to keep up this payment each month as there is a strong possibility of me losing my job.
Sorry to hear that. If so, pay them £1 PCM. There is not a lot they can do about it.
Surely this would not mean my debt passing back to my husband again if so why was he made bankrupt in the first place.
Why do you call it " your debt "
Very confusing hey but i bet not to uncommon.
I have kept all the documents sent including the one that referred to me as the sole trader of the business this was incorrect they said it was irrelevant and i had to make a payment offer.
They would say that wouldnt they. They want your Toot.
Is this right must i pay ?
If you are still unsure contact The Insolvency Service Website
And try not to worry. They cant have what you havent got.
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Posts
11,408
Re: Is this acceptable?
Originally Posted by Dodgy Geezer
Sole traders cant have employees. He is either a sole trader or not.
I'm not sure that is right, DG. Surely "sole trader" is the legal term for this type of entity in law, rather than meaning that he carries on business "as himself, by himself", if you see what I mean? I can't see why a sole trader cannot have employees, so can you clarify?
Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?
It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"
Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.
Thanks lots for your posts.
when i said sole trader i got that term from my husband who said he was classed as this by his accountant tax and vat reasons i expect.
I have the first correspondence asking me for the money, it was an official looking document with my name on it followed by trading as.
I was not a business partner.
Very relevant it should not be my debt, that is my argument with them.
Basically i need to get some sound advice which isn't going to cost arm and a leg.
Should i try citizens advise again or is there somewhere else i could try.
I contacted the CAB they dismissed my argument saying if my name was on the agreement i was liable.
It keeps gnawing at me that i should not have to pay
this especially when they keep on to me for more money.
As any one else been in the same boat.
Again i am not one of those people trying to get away with paying what i owe should this all fall onto me.
Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional
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11,408
Re: Is this acceptable?
Isn't spam, but it is a commercial link (offering services) so can you copy/paste the relevant bits so the OP can see them here. (Or find another link that isn't "commercial")
Always happy to help where I can!
Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?
It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"
Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.
I'm not sure that is right, DG. Surely "sole trader" is the legal term for this type of entity in law, rather than meaning that he carries on business "as himself, by himself", if you see what I mean? I can't see why a sole trader cannot have employees, so can you clarify?
I can only give my opinion from my own experience.
I was/have been a " Sole Trader " for over 20 years.
Without boring you with all the details, i had an Inland Revenue investigation because i had people working for me.
The conclusion was that a sole trader cannot be as such if you employ people. The end result was that i had to pay Employers contributions of thousands.
There are site available that tell you what a sole trader is/isnt. I think one of them may have been removed. The end result is different according to the Inland revenue.
Dear Dodgy Geezer
Do you think you were investigated because you employed people or because you didn't pay the inland revenue their tax and Ni contributions.
A sole trader has certain disadvantages in business like if you become bankrupt your personal items such as your house and private assets can be taken by the authorities against your debts where as say a person starts a business as a ltd company your personal assets are somewhat protected thus limited liabilities. Sorry DAG i think your diverting off the original path here.Their definitely is no reason in law or otherwise to prevent a sole trader being an employer.Any way any ideas on my predicament more to the point.
Pipe
Do you think you were investigated because you employed people or because you didn't pay the inland revenue their tax and Ni contributions.
I had an investigation generated by my periodic VAT analysis. Most VAT registered businesses have them.
Sorry DAG i think your diverting off the original path here.Their definitely is no reason in law or otherwise to prevent a sole trader being an employer.
I never said there was. I simply said in the eyes of the Inland Revenue, once you employ people, you are no longer a sole trader, and have different responsibilities.
Any way any ideas on my predicament more to the point.
Pipe
1. A sole trader can have employees. I did.
2. If the legal document was addressed to 'Pipe trading as ..' then it is invalid because you haven't been trading as that name or at all.
However, because you signed the application, you might be deemed to be liable.
Did your husband also sign the application?
Why did you sign it?
In what capacity did you sign it?
I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.
You can also ding my gong if you prefer.
Why did you sign it?
In what capacity did you sign it?
a bit of a silly question,
not meaning to be rude,
but does not fear come to mind,does not love spring to mind... does not unequal partnership and undue influence spring to mind..
or rather did you sign it more to the point were you under extreme pressure to sign
so many variables,fact is it was signed by who and why ?
patrickq1
Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional
Thanks for your support
i did not sign the application under duress from my beloved or any one else.
I was simply a third party signatory on the account of my hubby's business account. To help with banking takings or paying bills signing checks etc. when he wasn't about. Simples!!
Wow...... i asked to see the original application ,Having received copy of original application it has got me down as a partner in the business.
The bank manager filled out the application and yes i obviously signed it but i certainly missed the fact that he had got me down as partner and further more he knew i was not a partner.
The loan was for £4000 but they came in for £5500.The difference must have been from other debt on the business account ,unpaid overdraft or b ank charges maybe, never-the less i certainly did not put my signature to any of that part of the debt.
I reckon i have got a point that needs explaining by the claimant here so that is my next move ,let you know what happens.
thanks pipe.
Is this acceptable?
name has now changed three times since the first correspondence in 2004.
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Originally Posted by pipe
