Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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BAILIFFS - The Law and Your Rights

Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.

The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder Nurselayer Novitiate

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    Default Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    I've just heard from the PATAS (Parking and Traffic Appeal Service) that my appeal against Haringey Council was successful.

    I was issued with a fine for Driving in a Bus Lane by Haringey Council. I was only in the bus lane as I was turning into a car park! In spite of this the council reject all my appeals and I had to take my case to PATAS. I won as Haringey are guilty of procedural errors in their enforcement notices. If anyone on here has received a bus lane fine (and probably parking fineicon) from Haringey I would check their notices very, very carefully against the relavent acts (London Local Authorities Act for bus lanes) as you may well find that the council haven't adhered to the law.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    What were the grounds for your appeal?
    How many metres did you drive in the bus lane before turning in to the car park?
    Did PATAS uphold your appeal, and/or point out other errors in Haringeys
    procedures. And were those errors, errors of judgement in turning down your appeal, or errors on the actual penalty notice?


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    My grounds for appeal were that Haringey's Enforcement notice didn't comply with the LLAA '96. The adjudicator actually granted my appeal on circumstances other than my original appeal when it became clear to him that Haringey hadn't followed the proscribed procedure. The errors were errors on the notices that they issued.

    I have since heard that all Haringey pcnicon's are invalid but I don't know the reason why, I believe that you may find details at appealnow.com


    I would also highly recommend that people view london parking ticket - home page in connection with parking fines. Unfortunately John Squires who used to keep the website up to date no longer runs it and so it is quite out of date BUT much of the information is still valid and the quality of the information is excellent.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    Very interested to know the exact reasons of your success & would you submit a copy of the adjudicators decision to go on the London Motorists Action Group website? also the ham & high would love to run this kind of story

    you could post it on here as text...

    helps a lot for other people to be able to quote case names & numbers & the Adjudicators look it up & dont often like to contradict each others decisions. Not a precedent but a persuasive argument!

    would it work on all Haringey Bus Lane PCNs do you think - or even all CCTV?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    Adjudicator's Decision

    The Adjudicator, having considered this appeal on the basis of written and personal evidence from the Appellant and written evidence from the Council, has allowed the appeal on the grounds that there was no breach of the bus lane order or regulation.

    The reasons for the Adjudicator's decision are below.

    The Adjudicator directs the Authority to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement Notice.

    Adjudicator's Reasons:

    I am satisfied from the evidence before me that at 10.48 hours on 11th Nov '05 vehicle registration no. G****** was used in High RDicon Tottenham. I am also satisfied that Nurselayer, the appellant at the time were the owners of that vehicle.

    The issue of this appeal is whether there was breach of the bus lane regulations.

    Nurselayer appeared in person to present this appeal and made submissions on several points.

    I have considered the evidence from both parties and will address my judgement to one point and that is the wording of the enforcement notice dated 20th Feb 06. The notice states that if by 20th March 06 Nurselayer fails to pay or make representations, then a charge certificate will issue. Schedule 6 Para 2(3) of the Road Traffic Act '91 states that a local authority may only disregard representations that are received after 28 days from the date the enforcement notice is SERVED. This notice was dated the 20th Feb but the recipient was warned that if they did not pay or make representations 28 days from the date of its ISSUE, a charge certificate would issue. I find that this is a procedural impropriety. In any event Nurselayer made representations, which were received by the local authority on 20th Mar 06 but still a charge certificate appears to have been issued. In those circumstances because of the procedural error I will allow this appeal.


    If anyone wishes to use this as an example in a defence, then the actual case number is 2060200740 - however I would rather that the name of the appellant is not published on this website as I prefer to preserve my anonimity.


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder kathieathome Novitiate

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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    Hi,
    I received a pcnicon from Richmond council charging me with being in a bus lane & it was noted by a CCTV-MD picturures who was observing real time pictures from the road-side camera at 10.55 (this is relevant to tell you) it was also supported by video tape evidence. The actual camera was above the bus lane with a notice under it saying Left turn into Aargon Road (which is where I was turning into) then noitice also said straight onfor buses and other traffice it also had a right hand turn off all at one set of traffic lights. I have since taken photo's of this sign. I went onto Richmond council press office site to see what I could do regarding this appeal, it was then I came across a Temprary suspension of London Road (where bus lane is) for essential lamp column replacement. after reading all the oter garbage on it I noticed the date the date the order will come into effect was Wednesday 12 July 2006 inclusive. it then followed on sayingThe prohibitons of restrictions specified in that Order will apply only during such times and to such extent asindicated by trafficsighn prescribed by the Traffic Sign Regulations and General Direction 2002. Incidently aalso on the form they showed the hours stating vehicle traffic will be permitted to proceed in the following lenghts of the bus lane on the said road from junction with Twickenham Train Station to the junction with Arragon Road 10.ooam t 4.00pm.
    (sorry for being so long winded) Anyway, I sent them a letter of disputing this also enclosing a copy of the Tempory suspension notice. I got a letter back saying if I cared to pay 50 now it would be refunded if I won my case (Nice of them!!) also if I wanted a photo request one and one would be sent (Still waiting after a week of that request.
    I would be very gratefull if you would advice me further on what steps Im to take or d you think I may just get of with a technical faul on their part.
    Look forward to hearing from you
    Regards
    Kathie


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    You will need to formally challenge their decision. I think you have a good chance of winning from the information that you have provided - if the bus lane is suspended on the day when they caught you I can't see how they can try to enforce it. Make sure that stick to time limits and read very carefully everything that they send you.


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder kathieathome Novitiate

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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    Hi Thanks for getting back to me so promptly, the only worry I have is that at the time I was caught I did'nt see any road works going on. I was thinking that because of the notification of the date for road works just said 12July inclusive I may get away with a technicality as they did'nt state when works would be finished, if I lose this Im liable for l00 which is disgusting when you try & make an appeal its almost like a punishment for sticking up for yourself.
    Will let you know of outcome though.
    Kathie


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    What was the date you commiited the "offence" was it the day of the suspension?


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    kathieathome, I would put in your appeal as many reasons for the adjudicator to rule in your favour as possible.

    Eg 1) You were only in a bus lane so as to turn left.
    2) The suspension date was wrong
    3) Etc, etc, etc.

    Again I would look very, very carefully at everything that the council has sent you. In my case part of my appeal was that the law states that the council must put the amount on any increased fine on a pcnicon and Haringey didn't. Read the law, (most of it is in the LLA Act) and then check that the council have complied with every part of it. If they haven't then put it down in your appeal.

    If the appeal is unsuccessful then state that you should only pay the reduced amount as you should not be penalised for appealing. You may find that the adjudicator will agree with you and move that the council accept the lower rate. If he/she asks you why you didn't pay the 50 before the appeal tell him that you thought that this might be construed as an admission of guilt.


  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder kathieathome Novitiate

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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    Hi,
    Thank you so much for giving me that advice, I will do as you suggested and check every detail. I'm still waiting for the photo of proof its been a week now, so will mail them again requesting it again.
    Regards
    Kathie


  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder RhysW Novitiate

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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    Can somebody help?

    I just got a pcnicon for parking on Crouch End Hill, N8 at 18:45. The PCN is for 'being in a bus lane' which apparantly the parking zone is, the parking meter showed that the parking was not chargable after a certain time (long before 18:45) so I parked there ... but now have a PCN.

    a) Is 'being in a bus lane' a valid infingment
    b) There are two photos, with three minutes between them, one of these photos shows me unloading the car, is this allowed? This photo does not show the numberplate clearly
    c) The address for complaint is in Worthing.

    Please help or advise.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    You need to start your own thread... this one is over 4 years old!

    Please Note


    The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.
    I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

    Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice



  14. #14
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    Quote Originally Posted by RhysW View Post
    Can somebody help?

    I just got a pcnicon for parking on Crouch End Hill, N8 at 18:45. The PCN is for 'being in a bus lane' which apparantly the parking zone is, the parking meter showed that the parking was not chargable after a certain time (long before 18:45) so I parked there ... but now have a PCN.

    Obviously they are not going to have pay and display in a bus lane thats why its ended before 18.45
    a) Is 'being in a bus lane' a valid infingment
    unless you are a bus taxi or pedal cycle yes
    b) There are two photos, with three minutes between them, one of these photos shows me unloading the car, is this allowed? This photo does not show the numberplate clearly
    they must know your number plate they sent you a PCN, no loading is not allowed
    c) The address for complaint is in Worthing.
    lovely place full of cheap labour no doubt.

    Please help or advise.
    Unless the PCN is flawed or the bus lane is incorrectly signed nothing you have said so far is relevant. If you need advice post up a copy of the PCN and photos of the bus lane or google maps link.......ON a new threadicon


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Just Beat Haringey after a Bus Lane Fine

    nb the top part of Crouch End Hill Bus Lane has not been repainted since roadworks a year or so ago



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