Thread: G***** v Nationwide credit card ** DISCONTINUED**

This was a card issued by Nationwide in 2003 and settled in 2004. They then out of the blue sent me a new card in early 2008 with no new agreement or t & c and as I was in such a financial mess at the time I used the 2K credit limit to pay other debts and few months later realised this was hopeless and went to cccs for help with them and other debts. Did make 3 or 4 payment of £16 up to xmas but stopped as Nationwide had refused my offer and intrest and fees were still been added. Father-in-law was going to pay them off for nearly half price near xmas but as they never confirmed their offer in writing he never did. This is the record of correspondance I have noted and kept copies of:

10/09/08 Two letters receaved in same envelope 1st your account is underpaid by £95.13 I am attatching a default notice. Second default notice 14 days to pay full balance, of nearly £2k, from date of this letter or further action legal proceedings.
Letters sent 27/08/08 asking for copy credit agreement and details of any charges
18/09/08 Letter recieved balance under £2k threat collector coming to visit.
06/10/08 notice of default sum receaved £12 fee
10/10/08 Letter sent detailing data protection breach and stating account in official dispute
17/10/08 checked royal mail cca request rec number DW********* receaved 01/09/08 signed c s****
06 /11/08 notice of default sum receaved £12 fee
06/11/08 statement receaved fees and intrest minimum payment due £258.12
07/11/08 letter receaved kpr requesting immediate payment of under £2k+
11/11/08 letter sent to kpr asking them for copy original terms and conditions ect. Asking them to sue for the debt and informing them cccs are to get in touch.
06 /12/08 notice of default sum receaved £12 fee
06 /12/08 notice of sums in arrear 2 payments 31/10/08 £197.27 - 30/11/08 £258.12
11/12/08 letter receaved kpr offering to settle debt for £1.5k 7 days.
17/12/08 letter sent kpr refusing the offer to pay off for £1500 and offering £1.039.97 for full and final settlement. Also advicing them of my position as homeless and low waged and reminding them this agreement is unenforceable and in dispute and please take me to court.
07/01/09 phone call from kpr accepting £1056 as full and final settlement . Will confirm in writing.
09 /01/09 notice of default sum receaved £12 late payment fee £12 overlimit fee
09/01/09 letter receaved statement alleged balance £2k+ min payment £384.49 payable by 30/01/09
27/01/09 letter sent to kpr advicing that the account is in despute as no copy agreement or terms and conditions have been receaved.
30/01/08 letter receaved julie we***** with copy agreement from 03 and copy of telephone application. No credit limit no terms and conditions Nothing about apr or repayment rates.
02/02/09 letter sent pointing out obvious flaws in agreement and asking to be passed to legal.
03/02/09 letter receaved from kpr balance £2.1k threatening to pass this to a debt collection agency.
03/02/09 letter sent to kpr remove my details ect.
10/02/09 letter receaved nationwide 2 payments missed. 30/12/08 £320.52 - 30/01/09 £ £384.49 partial payment due 02/01/09 £16.45
10/02/09 letter receaved nationwide late payment fee and overlimit fee.
10/02/09 letter sent write off my debt and stop processing my data.
11/02/09 statement over fee 12 late fee 12 interest 29.35 alleged balance £2.1k+
13/02/09 kpr phoned 2pm - Advised them to call later night worker.
20/02/09 Letter receaved Sarah St***** we sent you the details you requested.
22/02/09 Letter sent rec :legal provide data protection request or else.
09 /03/09 notice of default sum receaved £12 late payment fee £12 overlimit fee
11/02/09 statement over fee 12 late fee 12 interest 29.35 alleged balance £2.2k+
23/03/09 Letter receaved Allison Ger**** the alleged agreement again with no credit limit mostly about ppi which i didn't take and data protection. signature box clearly seperate and labeled credit agreement data protection act.
23/03/09 Letter sent rec: sue me or refund all defaults and interest and accept £16.01 a month.
23/03/09 Letter receaved special delivery full disclosure of everything nationwide hold.
02/04/09 letter receaved another copy of the agreement with current terms and conditions.
06/04/09 letter receaved £12 default (30/03/09), £12 late payment fee(06/04/09)
06/04/09 statement receaved £2.2k+ min due £563.14 by 01/05/09
06/04/09 letter receaved sum in arrears 02/03/09 - 30/03/09 £495.20 partial payment £0
06/04/09 letter sent sue me
23/04/09 letter receaved from Nationwide complaint receaved can you provide more details of data protection fail. £16.01 offer was declined as Taking into consideration the amount owed we require some sort of security. The amount you are offering isn't sufficient to prevent your account been passed to our solicitors who will look to place a charging order on your property.
27/04/09 letter sent explaining unenforceable contract asking for debt to be written off.
29/04/09 letter receaved apology for not receaving a response to letter sent 24/03/09. Sending a default notice is a legal requirement. Contact kpr to discuss repayment plan. Sorry their is nothin further I can do for you.
01/06/09 Letter receaved Nationwide. I refer to our default notice issued 09/08/09. Despite our further attempts to resolve this a balance of £2.2k remains outstanding. You must make payment of full debt or contact me within 14 days from the date of this letter. If you fail to contact me by 12/06/09 will refer to solicitors ect.
08/06/09 letter receaved Nationwide legal advisor - you have failed to pay £2.2k under the arrangement dated October 2003. You were told in our previous letter if you failed to respond or we were unable to reach an acceptable agreement, legal action would be started without further warning. A claim has today been sent to the court for recovery of the amount owed.
charged court fees £85. If action continues further will be charged: £55 court fees - £46 land registry fees - £86.25 agent fees.
You will shortly be receaving your claim from the court.

As you see this is now approaching the courts and could do with some advice. Not sure if they have actually terminated this agreement as on the one hand they ask for the full balance while statement state minimum payments and dates due and interest is added. Pritty sure they didn't execute the default notice correctly by giving 14 days from the date of the letter and claiming the full balance. Also clear from their letter that the objective is to get a charging order on my wifes' house (in both our names) and this is why payment offers have been refused.
Killer punch has to be no credit limit or apr or anything on the agreement just a load of waffle about ppi which I didn't take, and data protection. Even that is clearly seperate from my signature in the consumer credit agreement box.
Not sure wether to push for a strike due to the default notice not been correctly formatted as the account status is unclear. Could they issue a new default notice?
Ideas/suggestions/guidance please.
ta

Will have to wait for the court papers to show up and see if they are claiming the full amount or just what would be due on the agreement.
Have written to them again though under cpr to find out amongst other things:
5. A statement as to wether this alleged agreement has been terminated or is still in your opinion an active contract. If terminated by whom and when. If terminated why have late fees, interest and over limit fees been added post this date? If still active current outstanding amount due according to the terms and condition you are supplying as evidence (1). If still active why did you revoke my credit, demand full balance is paid and instruct me to return my card?
6. Notification of the reason for sending me a new card in early 2008 and details of any agreement or terms and conditions sent with this card along with proof of postage.
Still a little unclear on the law with regards to new cards and wether this would also apply to cards replaced due to damage or loss. Surely the credit card is in effect a credit token so a terms and conditions along with a copy of the agreement need to be sent with it.
Anyone know or point me to the correct thread?

Receaved a letter from Nationwide on 12/06/09 advising me that they will forward on the requested documents.
Then Saturday the promised court papers came through.
They are going for the full amount of the debt plus £85 court charges in Swindon.
Looks like I will have my work cut out for me. Any help advice would be most welcome in getting my pack ready.
paul

Okay reading the threads a letter to the claimants solicitor as below seems like the next step while I prepare my defence. Any comments or ammendments before Monday please or I'm posting.
Re: county court case no: xxx - ref Account: xxx
Dear xxx

Re: Nationwide v xxx Case No:xxx

CPR 31.14 Request

On 13/06/09 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Swindon County Court.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2 The default notice

3 A copy of the original terms and conditions quoted as the reason for breach in your particulars of claim. This should be a true copy of the original and the original should be available at the hearing. cont…

4 The termination notice or evidence you intend to rely on in court that this alleged agreement has been terminated by yourselves and the full balance is indeed now due. Any original documents should be available at the hearing.
Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.
Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

yours faithfully


Yours faithfully
xxx

In answer to your questions:

Particulars of claim:

The claim is for money due from the Defendant(s) under an agreement ('the Agreement') regulated by the Consumer Credit Act made between the Claimant and Defendant(s). Under the terms of the Agreement, the Claimant opened a credit card account numbered **** **** **** **** on 17 October 2003.
By failing to repay the sums due under the terms of the Agreement, the Defendant(s) is(are) in breach of the terms of the Agreement and a balance of £2.2k+ us outstanding.
The defendant(s) was(were) served with Notice under Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act on 8 September 2009. The Defendant(s) has(have) failed to comply with the Default Notice and the Claimant claims the full amount outstanding from the Defendant.
The Claimant confirms that they have complied with Sections III and IV of the pre-action conduct practice directions.

Claimant is:
Nationwide Building Society, Unsecured Debt Recovery, Northampton

Just one name

Filled out the acknowledge service thing but not posting till Monday. This is for Swindon county court and we are in Yorkshire so unsure if you can file online.

Date of Service? do you mean issue date? this is 08/06/09

And that wasn't my typo they have put served with Notice 8th September 2009.

It seems their argument is so flawed I'm waiting for the sucker punch.

1. The agreement doesn't contain the term "credit limit" or cancellation rights
2. This card was cleared early 2005 and the spend was on a new card (same number) issued early 2008 with no copy terms of copy agreeement.
3. terms and conditions have been requested many times under subject access only sent copy of current terms.
4. Notice served was incorrectly formatted.
5. They requested full payment of entire balance (including fees of around £170) within 14 days and card back on the default making this a termination and default notice.
6. The 14 days was from the date of the letter not allowing postal time.
7. They added defaults and late payment fees after this Default Notice to the sum of around £300.

Could be more that was just a brief look at their case.

Nice to have a previous victor on board. Haven't got a scanner so adapted a default notice I found online so it reads exactly as my copy does. Well without the personal data obviously.

As to the new card it fell onto my letter box when I was up to my **** in debt and couldn't see a way out. Used it to pay off other debts but would imagine this was just a replacement. Am I not right in thinking new credit token has to be accompanied by copy agreement and terms.?

Hi FTM,

I think the new card would have been sent with the new card. What the Rankine judge called the 'card carrieer' copy.

More interesting is whether the second card is unsolicited. Was the original agreement terminated or did you just pay off the balance in 2005 and not do anything else? Did you receive any continuing statements showing an open (but NIL) account between 2005 & 2008? I'm wondering if the second card is covered by the first card's agreement or whether the second card should have had a new signed agreement?

Originally Posted by Docman

Hi FTM,

I think the new card would have been sent with the new card. What the Rankine judge called the 'card carrieer' copy.

More interesting is whether the second card is unsolicited. Was the original agreement terminated or did you just pay off the balance in 2005 and not do anything else? Did you receive any continuing statements showing an open (but NIL) account between 2005 & 2008? I'm wondering if the second card is covered by the first card's agreement or whether the second card should have had a new signed agreement?

Just what I was wandering. In my view it was unsolicited as I had no idea why it came. Like everything else with this it is a little weird though. Paid the old card off with a bank transfer on 07/10/04.
Statement weren't kept but the copies they have supplied are zero balance statements for:
07/04/05,
07/03/06,
07/06/06,
07/09/06,
06/08/07
5 statements over 4 years.
Telephone records on the account don't start untill the 14/04/08 and the first statement with my new spend was on 05/04/08 so guess the card must have arrived late march 08. No mention on the records as to why this card was sent.
What do you think? Is there a good case to add unsolicited card to the list?

Just another thought as well. We were so broke when this card arrived I was actually doing a drug study for convance for extra cash. It was my wife who made the 2 transactions on the new card (over the phone) and I never signed it. Would this be worth mentioning?

Was your OH a signatory on the card or account?

Receaved the same copy of the 2003 agreement today. Sent back a letter stating what document I am still awaiting: Copy default notice, termination notice ect.
Also contacted a barrister out of curiousity to see what fees he would charge and how soon the payment would be due. Can't afford it but presume there is some help available to low waged on child tax credits.

Yep, a barrister can cost £150 - £250 per hour but they usually know their stuff, so don't need as long to advise. As a result, the bill can be less than a solicitor who could charge £75 - £125 per hour but take longer because they are not specialists in this area.

Have you acknowledged service of the claim form (N1)?