Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
I've been reading these threads all day now but can only find one person who actually went to court - and he only won due to a typo!!!
The story so far (I'll try and keep this brief)............
Last Tuesday (26-0509) I rec'd a 'Notice of distress Warrant' from a bailiff company. I had no idea why and on contacting them they told me they didn't know either and referred me to Leicester Magistrate's Court. They were closed due to the Queens Birthday so 36 hours of worry ensued. However, after racking my brains, I came to the assumption that it must be some to do with a car as I do not have any unpaid debts etc. I phoned the DVLA with the reg no.s of my two current vehicles and that of a previous vehicle that I part ex'd in April'08 and was inform that none of these vehicles had any offences or fines against them (or me).
The folowing day I contacted the court and was informed that it was in relation to 'owning a vehicle without a valid licence' this is the car I part ex'd. The court advised me to write to them to apply to have the case re-opened, which I did. I naively assumed that there would be several exchanges of letters and it would all eventually go away with no real harm done - how wrong I was.
Today I rec'd a letter from the court saying that the case has been re-opened and will be heard on Friday 19 June 2009 and I MUST ATTEND
I have been advised by the court that I do not need a solicitor but a prosecutor for the DVLA will be there - any advice as to what to expect would be most gratefully rec'd.
Sorry I forgot to say that the reason this went to court is coz the DVLA were writing to me at my previous address and I therefore, did not know anything about it until the bailiff company contacted me - the debt is now £225.00
This previous address - was this correct at the time the vehicle was disposed of, and you subsequently moved? That would be a valid defence for recall, but not if you'd simply not updated the V5 before selling it, as this is an offence in itself.
You'll need to show evidence that you disposed of the vehicle at a date prior to the imposition of the Road Tax running out, and a copy of the change of keeper info would also be useful, you would have been required to send this to the DVLA in any case, compleete with the signature and details of the new keeper.
The tax was due in July 08 and I moved in Nov 07 - however I have another car which has been changed so it begs the question 'why would I change the address for one car and not the other?'
As for the V5 thingy - to be honest unlike most people on this forum, I really can't remember if I sent it or not. I always have done in the past (owned several cars in the last 21 years - all of which taxed/insured/MOT'd). Is is it not for the DVLA to prove that I didn't send it rather than me to prove that I did?
However, the charge in question (at the moment) is owning a vehicle without a tax disc. I have the receipts from the garage to prove the part ex and I can therefore prove I was not the owner in Jul'08. Is this not sufficient evidence? I can argue the change of address bit later, as I assume this is a different offence?????
As for the V5 thingy - to be honest unlike most people on this forum, I really can't remember if I sent it or not. I always have done in the past (owned several cars in the last 21 years - all of which taxed/insured/MOT'd). Is is it not for the DVLA to prove that I didn't send it rather than me to prove that I did?
Your success depends on you convincing the magistrates that you did send the V5 as per your obligations. If standing in Court you say that you cannot be sure if you sent it, I wouldn't expect a good result. But, above all, do not lie.
The V5C is a whole ew ballgame to the old V5. There is more interraction with it. To effectively dispose of your liability, you would need to get the ne RK to sign the V5C page, which you would then send to DVLA and this would cause a new RK to be printed and sent to the new RK's address. If you were selling to a dealer, there is a slip to notify this, and gets you off the hook. This means the responsibility if for your to prove you did, then not query any confirmation, that hope they can prove you did nothing.
Hello Again
I have just checked the log book of my other car and my new (current) address was changed on the date I moved. So, surely, I would have changed the address of both vehicles at the same time???? I know this isn't 100% proof but wouldn't a court tend to agree with this assumption?
Is there anyone out there who can tell me what happens at the actual hearing?
In the hearings I've been to, and in cases where an assertion is made without verifyable proof it is left up to the judge to determine, based on his experience and his evaluation of you as (a) a reliable witness, and (b) whether he determines you are telling the truth.
Bear in mind that this is a criminal court, so the prosecution must prove its case beyond reasonable doubt. It is not enough for them to assert they must prove.
All you have to do is raise doubt; you do not need to disprove their assertion. Although being able to prove them wrong is always better.
What you need to do is spend some time recalling exactly what you did. The address change is irrelevant - you haven't been charged with that. You say that you have the paperwork from selling the car to a dealer. It may be worthwhile going to them and seeing what they recall of the transaction. Did they retain the V5 after giving you the (signed) yellow slip. Can you remember sending that off to DVLA. If so, you legal duty as regards that car are ended.
I understand that I am not being charged with failure to notify a change of address, but my arguement to court is that if my records had been updated with my new address I would have received the initial correspondance and everything could have been resolved prior to going to court. Instead, all letters etc went to my old address and the 'fine' is now £255.00 and I;ve probably got a CCJ (which is the thing that is upsetting me the most).
T my arguement to court is that if my records had been updated with my new address I would have received the initial correspondance and everything could have been resolved prior to going to court.
So your argument to the Court is that it is all your fault?
You should be concentrating on the fact that you are not liable for the initial fine - if you can establish this (as per my previous post).
As far as your address goes, how did the bailiff find you and does their warrant of execution have your current address?
I see your point - I think I'm being blinded by the CCJ.
Yes the bailiffs have my current address and it only took 1 week to 'find' me! I'm suprised it took that long really as I'm not trying to hide from anyone. As I say, I have another car which is registered to my current address so if the DVLA had used their noddle they could have found me 12 months ago instead of wasting everyone's time and money.
Help - I'm Going To Court
!!!
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Originally Posted by joeyisere
