Thread: Ge Money - (debenhams) Ppi

Hi,
I had a Debenhams card which I took out in 1994 (in store I think). I dont remember ever requesting PPI and as I was a housewife and unemployed at the time this insurance would not have been beneficial to me. I did a SAR about 2 years ago and the information they supplied only went back to 2001 but after Sept. 2004 there is a note on the account that says "ppi cancelled - never had CPP" and this is duplicated every month since. I dont remember cancelling the insurance and paid it every month up til Sept. 2004 simply because, in my naivety, I didnt realise that it was optional.

The account was sold to Link Financial about 6 to 9 months ago, who eventually obtained a charging order over my property.

I decided to challenge the PPI and wrote to GE Money who told me that I should now approach Link Financial as they have no interest in my account anymore, so I sent the cca request letter to Link Financial on the 20th February 2009 and have not received the cca from them either. I then phoned them and asked why I had not received it and that they were in default and if they would not produce the cca the debt was unenforceable. The lady asked me why I wanted the cca and I told her that I was challenging ever requesting PPI and that I needed to see the cca because of this. She also said that "there are ways around that" when I mentioned that the debt was unenforceable without the cca! She said that because the cca was old it would have been kept in storage somewhere and that was why it was taking so long to supply it - I reminded her then of the 12+2 days.

Now I have received a letter from Link Financial stating that the original provider has advised them that a copy of the original agreement is not available due to it being signed 15 years ago and asking me why I paid PPI for 10 years and are only just stating that I did not request it. She goes on to say that they are sorry they are unable to resolve my query as their sources of information are limited due to the length of time since the agreement was signed.

I am a little unsure of what to do next, but personally feel that they dont have a leg to stand on but would appreciate your advice as I dont know whether the charging order changes anything. I paid roughly in the region of £17.00 per month for 10 years and is I could get this repaid it would more than cover the debt that I owe on my account.

Thanks - I appreciate any advice you may offer

Tink

Hello Tink,

First question is the GE money (debenhams account still running or has it been closed)

Hi,
I had a Debenhams card which I took out in 1994 (in store I think). I dont remember ever requesting PPI and as I was a housewife and unemployed at the time this insurance would not have been beneficial to me. I did a Subject access request about 2 years ago and the information they supplied only went back to 2001 but after Sept. 2004 there is a note on the account that says "ppi cancelled - never had CPP" and this is duplicated every month since. I dont remember cancelling the insurance and paid it every month up til Sept. 2004 simply because, in my naivety, I didnt realise that it was optional.

The account was sold to Link Financial about 6 to 9 months ago, who eventually obtained a charging order over my property.

I decided to challenge the PPI and wrote to GE Money who told me that I should now approach Link Financial as they have no interest in my account anymore, so I sent the cca request letter to Link Financial on the 20th February 2009 and have not received the cca from them either. (did you send the required fee for the CCA £1.00?) I then phoned them (try and keep everthing in writing sent recorded delivery that way you will have written records to rely on and not phone calls than can be denied) and asked why I had not received it and that they were in default and if they would not produce the cca the debt was unenforceable. The lady asked me why I wanted the cca and I told her that I was challenging ever requesting PPI and that I needed to see the cca because of this. She also said that "there are ways around that" when I mentioned that the debt was unenforceable without the cca! She said that because the cca was old it would have been kept in storage somewhere and that was why it was taking so long to supply it (keep reminding them of the requirements of the Data Protection Act 1998 and their responsibility to provide the CCA)- I reminded her then of the 12+2 days.

Now I have received a letter from Link Financial stating that the original provider has advised them that a copy of the original agreement is not available due to it being signed 15 years ago and asking me why I paid PPI for 10 years and are only just stating that I did not request it. (it is irrelevant that you are only claiming ppi mis-selling now as PPI has been mis-sold for years but people are only now becoming aware of the issue due to media coverage) She goes on to say that they are sorry they are unable to resolve my query as their sources of information are limited due to the length of time since the agreement was signed. (if they cannot produce the CCA or any additional documentation then the Account should be considered to be in dispute)

I am a little unsure of what to do next, but personally feel that they dont have a leg to stand on but would appreciate your advice as I dont know whether the charging order changes anything. I paid roughly in the region of £17.00 per month for 10 years You should submit a claim to Link Financial asking for a refund but firstly send a Subject access request to Link) and is I could get this repaid it would more than cover the debt that I owe on my account.

Thanks - I appreciate any advice you may offer

Tink

Firstly send a Subject Access Request to Link they now obviously own the account having bought it from GE Money and Debenhams.

Data Protection Act 1998 - Subject Access Request

and another one here...

Full SAR for ppi

You should request the following documents:

A true copy of your Consumer Credit Agreement with the Terms and Conditions that were applicable at the time you took the loan.

Copies of all statements applicable to the loan.

Copies of all correspondence that apply to you as a data subject ie letters, emails, faxes etc.

Copies of all recorded telephone calls or transcripts of the recordings.

A copy of the needs and wants/ customer duty of care questionnaire... here is an example.

http://wwwa.mbna.co.uk/insurance/files/CP0608_INSU_MB_LP_S.pdf

Copies of any notes made by Link staff in their dealings with you.

The issues of the charging order on your property should be addressed here for legal assistance.

Legal Issues

or in fact here...

debt collection Industry

these two links will be able to help with the charging order issues just start a new thread and post as you have in the PPI forum.

aa

Thanks for the info Alanalana I will do a SAR to Link now

The account is not still running as it has been passed to Link.

Tink

Ok
Have sent SAR yesterday after receiving another letter from Link saying that GE Money have informed them that I took out PPI after a discussion with their telemarketing department and that they hope this clarifies the position and the query has now been resolved. She also said that no agreement does not make the debt unenforceable as it has been said that if you are making regular payments towards the account then you are acknowledging the debt! I think she said that the statement was made by the fos but not sure! Anyone heard of this or is it b......t!
Tink

Originally Posted by TINK660

Ok
Have sent SAR yesterday after receiving another letter from Link saying that GE Money have informed them that I took out PPI after a discussion with their telemarketing department and that they hope this clarifies the position and the query has now been resolved. She also said that no agreement does not make the debt unenforceable as it has been said that if you are making regular payments towards the account then you are acknowledging the debt! I think she said that the statement was made by the fos but not sure! Anyone heard of this or is it b......t!
Tink

Not certain about this but if you ask in here...

debt collection Industry

or here....

Legal Issues

you should get the answer.

aa

Originally Posted by TINK660

Ok
Have sent SAR yesterday after receiving another letter from Link saying that GE Money have informed them that I took out PPI after a discussion with their telemarketing department and that they hope this clarifies the position and the query has now been resolved. She also said that no agreement does not make the debt unenforceable as it has been said that if you are making regular payments towards the account then you are acknowledging the debt! I think she said that the statement was made by the fos but not sure! Anyone heard of this or is it b......t!
Tink

So GE can't produce the agreement but they can confirm a so called telephone conversation - most convenient - wonder how they can manage that after all that time. What a load of rubbish they talk. They managed to produce a signed so called agreement of mine that went back to 1991.

How did they manage to get a charging order did you not contest the court papers originally?

Have you been making any payments to them?

Challenge anything that the monkeys (Link) say they are just full of bananas and nuts and have trees to climb next to their desks.

DG

Hi
I didnt challenge it because I didnt know that they couldnt find the agreement.

I have been paying back around £30 per month as agreed with Link after they obtained the charging order.

The way Link have put it is that the agreement would be in storage somewhere offsite, obviously to make me believe that they could present it should the need arise but not for my perusal! I think they are full of b......t because as you say they cannot locate the agreement but can confirm I bought it from a telemarketing call. The SAR should be interesting when it arrives because if there is no reference to a telephone call they will obviously have no proof that I purchased it over the phone. I expect that is there standard response to anyone querying PPI.

Tink

no cca = no pay
if they have not produced the required paperwork in the 12+2 working days
stop payment, inform them of thus & tell them the A/C is now in dispute.

then get on that PPI claim.
with one going back SO many years, you are in for a big windfall with all the interest!!

get claiming. ignore what they say...little beggers! typical response

dx

ps this should be claimed back from the OC, not link, GE money are putting up a smokescreen to confuse you.

When the issued court papers to me they stated heresay evidence because their calls were supposed to be recorded - what a load of rubbish - they sent me a few typed lines on an A4 sheet - they never mentioned the 10 or so calls that I made to them so I wouldn't hold out much hope for much.

It will be interesting because at the moment I'm working on the cost of the Account Cover GE was charging me and I intend, when I've got it all written down, to go after that - I imagine Link will then throw out their dummies, stamp their feet, go in the corner, bang their heads, have a cry and then go climb the trees like monkeys do.

I'll be watching your thread with interest.

DG

Originally Posted by dx100uk

no cca = no pay
if they have not produced the required paperwork in the 12+2 working days
stop payment, inform them of thus & tell them the A/C is now in dispute.

then get on that PPI claim.
with one going back SO many years, you are in for a big windfall with all the interest!!

get claiming. ignore what they say...little beggers! typical response

dx

ps this should be claimed back from the OC, not link, GE money are putting up a smokescreen to confuse you.

GE sent me statements some of which they say they couldn't find however they still managed to type up the transactions made - very odd - but they won't be happy when the claim goes in it will cost them dear - then link can go sxxxf themselves. I'm looking at a very good windfall which I reckon will wipe out most of the debt.
DG

I cant work out how much they have charged me because I dont have all the statements - i only have statements from 2001 and my account was opened in 1994 - however from september 2004 it states on the sheet printed out (list of monthly transactions sent instead of statements) "Account cover cancelled - never had CPP" and this is listed every month up until the date I first requested the statements when I was claiming the excessive charges back! Very strange and hasnt been explained!

What would you say my next step should be after receiving the SAR?

Thanks

Tink

Originally Posted by TINK660

I cant work out how much they have charged me because I dont have all the statements - i only have statements from 2001 and my account was opened in 1994 - however from september 2004 it states on the sheet printed out (list of monthly transactions sent instead of statements) "Account cover cancelled - never had CPP" and this is listed every month up until the date I first requested the statements when I was claiming the excessive charges back! Very strange and hasnt been explained!

What would you say my next step should be after receiving the SAR?

Thanks

Tink

Go through all of the paperwork in detail, if you are still not happy that they have produced all you require, you can send off a letter of non compliance and complain to the Information Commissioners Office and Office of Fair Trading.

If there is still no copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement write to both Ge Money and Link telling them you are putting the account into dispute. You can then stop payments to Link. I will seek further advice on the Charging order they have raised.

aa

Thanks Alanalana - I appreciate that.

Tink

Hi there,

You may wish to try to get the original CCJ set-aside and with that goes the Charging Order.

The application to set aside the CCJ will cost £75.

Have a read of this thread to see how a CAG member got their CCJ and CO set-aside -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ing-order.html

Originally Posted by TINK660

Ok
Have sent SAR yesterday after receiving another letter from Link saying that GE Money have informed them that I took out PPI after a discussion with their telemarketing department and that they hope this clarifies the position and the query has now been resolved. She also said that no agreement does not make the debt unenforceable as it has been said that if you are making regular payments towards the account then you are acknowledging the debt! I think she said that the statement was made by the fos but not sure! Anyone heard of this or is it b......t!
Tink

It doesn't matter what GE Money say - you are now asserting your right to see whether they have a legally enforceble agreement unnder the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Ok
SAR received this morning - No agreement included, no record of telephone call from telemarketing where I supposed bought PPI, in fact nothing going back further than 2004.

The letter from Link included basically says that they will rely on the fact that I paid it for 10 years without querying it.

I couldnt help myself - I rang Link and SAR did not include all the details I requested and only went back to 2004 - she told me that they didnt have anything going back any further to which I replied - then if there are no notes or anything else how can they say that I bought ppi from the telemarketing call as they conveniently say. They must have had a note written down somewhere she said - how convenient said I - then I would like a copy of that which should have been included in my SAR surely.

You will have to take legal advise she said - ok watch this space.

Tink

Can you point me in the direction of an "Account in dispute" letter please.

Cheers

Originally Posted by TINK660

Can you point me in the direction of an "Account in dispute" letter please.

Cheers

Tink I have asked the mods and come up with one letter but it is aimed at bank charges and the impending issue of a Default Notice.

I would suggest perhaps you use this in the first instance.

Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters

Point out their failings in regard to the lack of information provided and the fact you are entitled to all data they hold and also mention the phone call which said they do not keep information before 2004. Suggest that if that is the case and they cannot produce the Consumer Credit Agreement you will consider putting the account into dispute witholding further payments until they do produce a true copy of your Agreement with the prescribed terms and conditions.

Also say that to get the information you will be writing to the Information Commisssioners Office to submit a complaint about their failure to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998... see this...

From the Information Commissioners Office
Ensuring personal data is handled correctly - Data Protection Act

with copies to the FSA about unfair treatment of customers...see this...

The FSA has outlined 6 outcomes which it aims to achieve:
Treating customers fairly

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/other/tcf_deadline.pdf

If this does not produce the required data then time to put the account in dispute and stop your payments until a true copy of the CCA is sent to you.

aa

Quick update

Sent letter to link requesting once again refund of all PPI payments made or their final decision on this matter so that I can escalate things further. Received short terse letter back saying - "we dont believe you are entitled to a refund as you paid it for so long, it was shown on your statements every month and you should have queried it a long time ago. NO REFUND IS DUE.

Next I think is a letter to the IFO and a complaint form to fos - however I dont think I'll get anywhere with FOS as the claim is for back to early 1990's.

I have got nowhere with Link Financial on this one, and GE money are just passing the buck to Link, Im a bit stuck now but want to continue - should I approach GE money again as they are the ones that are unable to supply CCA and transcript of telephone call in which I purchased the PPI?

Thanks