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Sent CCA request on 28th Feb 09 and received a copy of current T&Cs and a current agreement - blank but my name, address and card number printed on the back. The "agreement" refers to £12 charges (2006) and chip and pin (2006-7) as well as numerous other anomalies.
Sent a letter stating that this is not a "true copy" and the nice Ms Renshaw sent me a letter advising that it was a true copy, was enforcible (and pay up). She also told me I could go to the fos if i was unhappy.
Sent a default notice, highlighting the anomalies, to which Ms Renshaw (she must be crippled with RSI ,all the letters she types) restated the position from the previous letter. Confirmed that the agreement sent was a true copy, enforcible etc etc. Also, the agreement had been updated with changes as appropriate. If I was unhappy, go to the FOS. No further communication would be entered into etc.
Replied that the agreement was either a true copy or updated, it couldn't be both. They admit to updating therefore it can't be a true copy - awaiting reply.
Anyone know why they are so keen to push you at the FOS - is it because they feel that the FOS are not strong enough to sort anything out (or too busy)?
I've withheld payment so lots of calls from the goons in the Phillipines. One told me, when I started talking about CCA 74 compliance, "Act, what Act, I'm not interested in an Act. You are in arrears, I must take a payment today........etc"
He didn't get one.
Anyone else been here? What is the established wisdom, going forward?
This is the standard response to a CCA request, and unfortunatley you won't get further with it.
Next step would in my opinion be to SAR them (template letter is in the letters section). They have to send the actual agreement for this, although they may still be a bit naughty (mine has turned up with my sig on one side with no prescribed terms, and a very obviously not related set of terms copied onto the back). It will also give you information about other things which may be of some use to you.
It's £10 (postal order unless you can get someone to sign a cheque for you), and the cost of Recorded or Special delivery (don't be tempted to go for un-registered - they will deny receiving it).
The statement about compliance and enforceability is also very normal, but very flawed. They can fully comply but not have anything enforceable, or vice versa. Or they can fully comply and send an enforceable agreement! What you have at the moment is unenforceable and non-compliant, so the lovely Miss Renshaw is once again telling big fat porkies.
With regards to the fos - I think you're about right. They seem to be less than helpful with this sort of thing, although occasionally they surprise everyone.
Also, you need to get a 'writing only' letter out to them (template in the library as well). In addition, every time they call just repeat parrot fashion 'I do not talk about financial matters over the phone. Please write.' If they don't let it go then, just tell them very politely you are going to hang up as you will not discuss it. There really isn't any point in getting into it with them regarding the CCA - they either won't know enough/anything about it, or they simply thing you're a debt avoider and will start moralising. It gets you nowhere. Of if you just want to wind them up go ahead - it's always fun to bait DCA's Oh, and buy a recorder if you can!
Sounds like you're handling them well at the moment, so maybe try those suggestions and see where it gets you
Lexis
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
I re-read my original post and noticed I hadn't put in about the SAR. I have sent one but I'm not sure if I registered it. I will check but I wonder if the PO being cashed would qualify as evidence of receipt? Again, I haven't checked the PO so will do some homework tonight and see what I actually did.
I will wait to see if the SAR turns up before troubling the fos, had mixed experience of them - not related to the CCA.
I'm also curious as to whether I will get a reply from Ms Renshaw (does anyone know if she really exists?). The letter stated that an acknowledgement only would be sent but I wonder if they will leave it when my letter rubbishes the entire contents of her last missive - time will tell.
I've read a number of success stories but they don't seem to quantify what was won - I haven't read all of them, by any means.
My preferred outcome would be to have the agreement declared, or acknowledged, unenforcible and get a refund of the balance of payments to expenses. I've spent the money and will pay it back but would like a refund of the balance. This will amount to a couple of grand as I have rarely used the card in recent years but let the interest roll - stupid really but there you are. I've just lost my job so the money will be really useful.
Is this likely, in your opinion?
Thanks again
Stubie
P.S. How do you do one of those pictures next to your name, I've got to get one of those
Ok, so if you've SAR'd, going only by my experience you can expect them to go beyond their 40 days and only send anything when you threaten them with the ICO.
Ellie is real - she's on facebook! - but she's off on maternity leave at the moment (poor kid) so don't believe anything 'signed' by her is actually from her. TBH I'd be amazed if you get anything other than their standard template letters anyway
I'm afraid I have no idea about the likelihood of what you want to happen actually happening. The only way to have it declared unenforceable would be to go to court, but it seems that Cap1 are reluctant to do this (wonder why...). With regards to getting the balance back, again it's a court matter and probably luck of the draw on getting a sympathetic judge. Despite the fact it would seem logical (and indeed their being case law to back it up) that if there is no agreement then the money was lent with no way of adding interest, some judges will declare it unjust enrichment if you try it. I have no first hand knowledge of any of this though so you'd probably be better served by someone else answering that one!
Lexis
ps - I think the pics are done in the user cp area, but I don't know how to
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
Ok, so if you've SAR'd, going only by my experience you can expect them to go beyond their 40 days and only send anything when you threaten them with the ICO.
Ellie is real - she's on facebook! - but she's off on maternity leave at the moment (poor kid) so don't believe anything 'signed' by her is actually from her. TBH I'd be amazed if you get anything other than their standard template letters anyway
I'm afraid I have no idea about the likelihood of what you want to happen actually happening. The only way to have it declared unenforceable would be to go to court, but it seems that Cap1 are reluctant to do this (wonder why...). With regards to getting the balance back, again it's a court matter and probably luck of the draw on getting a sympathetic judge. Despite the fact it would seem logical (and indeed their being case law to back it up) that if there is no agreement then the money was lent with no way of adding interest, some judges will declare it unjust enrichment if you try it. I have no first hand knowledge of any of this though so you'd probably be better served by someone else answering that one!
Lexis
ps - I think the pics are done in the user cp area, but I don't know how to
Thanks for that, sussed the pic but need to sort out the one I really want, this little chap will do for now.
At the moment I'm happy to sit it out and wait for cap 1 to make the next move. For some reason they have stopped bugging me on the phone so all is peaceful in the house right now.
Perhaps they are plotting something, or am I giving them too much credit
I'm happy that they have gone quiet for now, I want to take MBNA to task first. Looking forward to a healthy payout from them. Cap 1 are next but might get promoted if they play up.
Good, it's a lovely picture No, I've not got one, but I've wanted one since I was about 7 as they're such stunning and good natured animals. Trouble is I'm very lazy at heart so I'm in need of lazy dogs, and unfortunately Weimeraners just aren't! - lurchers/greyhounds are ideal for me; a 2 minute burst of beautiful figure of eights and they're happy for the day
I hope you get a result with MBNA, they're many people's pet hate with their highly dubious work 'ethics' Not that cap1 are any better...
Enjoy the silence with cap1 - we have it with BOS at the moment. It's lovely but slightly odd, and you do wonder what they're up to
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
Good, it's a lovely picture No, I've not got one, but I've wanted one since I was about 7 as they're such stunning and good natured animals. Trouble is I'm very lazy at heart so I'm in need of lazy dogs, and unfortunately Weimeraners just aren't! - lurchers/greyhounds are ideal for me; a 2 minute burst of beautiful figure of eights and they're happy for the day
I hope you get a result with MBNA, they're many people's pet hate with their highly dubious work 'ethics' Not that cap1 are any better...
Enjoy the silence with cap1 - we have it with BOS at the moment. It's lovely but slightly odd, and you do wonder what they're up to
Hmmm, you're right, they do have tons of energy, I've had two.
A very generous Cagger has offered me his POC to plagerise and since he won, I'm fairly hopeful too.
I think I will wait to see where MBNA go next before I go into bat with Cap 1.
Cap 1 did phone last night but the OH got to the phone first and they soon dis-appeared. Answering the phone is the sport of choise in our home at the mo and we are all disappointed when its a kosher caller.
I still get the occasional missive from Ms Renshaw but she seems to be getting bored (or running out of places to hide).
I took the trouble to do a lot of research before I engaged the CCCs as I do like to be in a position of knowledge before I take something on. It seems a bit of a waste of time to some extent as the people I am dealing with don't seem to have a clue.
Perhaps they have gone off to bully someone less well informed.
One day all consumers will find CAG and the end will be well and truly nigh for the CCCs and their minions.
Well, I got my SAR back today - 10 days early, well done Cap 1.
The only agreement that it contained was the one they sent mea couple of weeks ago in response to my CCA 74.
The only doc with my sig on it was a direct debit mandate from 2001.
Haven't been through all the other stuff in detail yet but there is nothing of an agreement or signed nature anywhere else in the bundle.
Question:
Do I accpt that the document is a true copy of my CCA (s172, I think) and go to court to get them to produce this document with my signature on it. I know they can't so they would be buggered on that one if I did.
Go the CPR 31.16 route so "en-vogue" at the moment. And try again.
Write to them stating that my efforts (s78(1)) and SAR have failed to yield a signed agreement. I contend that you posess no such doc. If you want any more money then sue me or go away.
I'm doing something similar with Tesco PF and soon with Egg.
With Tesco I've sent 2 cca requests and two CPR requests all I've had back is an application form after second CCA request. other than that nothing. Its now two months since i piad them.
I'd like to think their is an alan suggar somewhere saying to all the people who wrote these agreements up "your fired"
Like you I'm wondering what is best next step take them to court and get a ruling or wait 6 year s til statute barred.
Stubie Vs Cap One
). She also told me I could go to the fos
if i was unhappy.
) restated the position from the previous letter. Confirmed that the agreement sent was a true copy, enforcible etc etc. Also, the agreement had been updated with changes as appropriate. If I was unhappy, go to the FOS. No further communication would be entered into etc.
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). It will also give you information about other things which may be of some use to you.
Originally Posted by lexis200
)
