Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)




BAILIFFS - The Law and Your Rights

Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.

The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.

£13.95 + £2.00 (P&P)
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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder gazbo34 Novitiate

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    Default Car Insurance on Private Property

    Hi Folks, just a quick one:-


    Do you need to have motor insuranceicon to drive a vehicle on private property??


    Cheers Gazbo


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    Not as far as I know. However, make sure you don't have to cross any public spaces to reach this private land.


  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder Helford Novitiate

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    Wink Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    Yes you do!

    Without going into legal specifics, the general rule of thumb is you need Road Traffic Act cover (Similar to Third Party Only) if the area where you're driving is accessible to other members of the public.

    So a private farm that has a long access road used by the postman in his van having to deliver the mail, then you would need to ensure that your vehicle is insured if it used here.

    The large privately owned car behind the factory, that has an access route to a unit at the back, then you would need to ensure that your vehicle is insured if it used here.

    There are always exceptions, but...


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder Raykay Informative Raykay Informative

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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    A vehicle used on a road or public place is required to be covered by insurance, section 143 RTA 1988. If it is private and neither a road (within the meaning of the act - which generally means a public road) or public place, s. 143 doesn't apply.

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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    i think also that if it is a gated, you do not need it .

    dx

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    I agree. There is case law on this.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    just becareful on this gated bit.
    it's NOT the old wives tales of 'it must be closed one day per calender year' [that applies to some private roads], it must be a perm closed gate, only opened for access then closed again.

    there is an old thread somewhere on it.

    dx

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  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder Raykay Informative Raykay Informative

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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    As I understand it, closing the gate on private road one day per year has more to do with preventing it becoming a right of way, than the insurance aspect.


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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    The trouble is who would be stilly NOT to have insurance? Never mind the damage to other vehicles (Third Party) what about is someone decides to lob a hammer over a wall or a slate falls off a nearby roof? You could claim n your own policy, but not if there was no cover if force.

    I have a vehicle that is SORNED, but I still have it covered for 'off road' in case the garage is broken into - no cover is not an option.


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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    I suppose if you have a worthless heap that is being driven around some fields by a teenager before he is 17, there wouldn't be much point.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    Quote Originally Posted by Helford View Post
    So a private farm that has a long access road used by the postman in his van having to deliver the mail, then you would need to ensure that your vehicle is insured if it used here.
    This specific instance does not make the driveway a public place within the RTA.

    Many farm vehicles are never, taxed or insured (think combines and tractors) and can be driven by anybody of any age. I was 12 when I started driving the Land Rover on the farm.


  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder ettaariane1 Novitiate

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    Thumbs up Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    I telephoned the DVLA to clear this up. A new law has just been passed through parliament that has not yet been activated. However, I was advised that persons should act on it anyway to avoid being caught out.
    If your vehicle is on private property and taxed it must now also be insured. Previously you could have a taxed car on your property without it getting sorned.

    Now, if it is taxed you must return the tax disc for refund and SORN your vehicle until you wish to re-insure it.

    If it is not taxed or insured it has to be SORNED.

    Hope this helps. Best wishes. Etta


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    Quote Originally Posted by ettaariane1 View Post

    Now, if it is taxed you must return the tax disc for refund and SORN your vehicle until you wish to re-insure it.

    If it is not taxed or insured it has to be SORNED.

    Hope this helps. Best wishes. Etta
    ..and there lies the first problem...

    If you wish to surrender a tax disk it is only refunded in whole months. So lets say I have a car taxed and insured, but insurance runs out on the 10th of the month. I don't wish to re-insure it because it is off road and I don't intend driving it for another 4 or 5 weeks.. If I SORN it I will loose 20 days tax, (and have to wait upto 6 weeks for the DVLA to send my refund). But if I don't SORN it I have to pay for insurance that I don't need for a month or more. On an insurance policy of say ú500 per year, that will cost me 40 odd quid for something I don't need.

    There are all sorts of other complications with this law, that in essence, appears to be have been designed purely as another motorists stealth tax. Remember, when they introduced SORN, the ministers involved specifically stated it was designed to "catch repeat offenders and criminals" yet has mainly turned into an instant fine against "innocent" or forgetful people that had no intention of breaking the law but get caught anyway.


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder ettaariane Novitiate

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    Thumbs up Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    I fully agree. That is how I came to be on this forum, searching for that info. I am disabled. My car needs work done on it and is off the road for three weeks. I have had to go and re-insure it today simply for the pleasure of placing my car, on my own drive, with tax.

    It's riduculous. I could have sent my tax disc in but it is such a rigmarole getting fresh disabled tax disc and do we think the DVLA have the tax department up too date. Bet you they haven't and I can see all sorts of problems with this.

    I think the Insurance should have a clause that states if you inform them the car is off the road, and the periods of time it will be there, the insurance should revert to a private propery parking insurance and carry the relevant deduction in payments for that time. Would that happen? Never!!

    I think it's 'clobber the motorist' year. Etta


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property


  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder grumpy101 Novitiate

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    Angry Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    Quote Originally Posted by ettaariane View Post
    I fully agree. That is how I came to be on this forum, searching for that info. I am disabled. My car needs work done on it and is off the road for three weeks. I have had to go and re-insure it today simply for the pleasure of placing my car, on my own drive, with tax.

    It's riduculous. I could have sent my tax disc in but it is such a rigmarole getting fresh disabled tax disc and do we think the DVLA have the tax department up too date. Bet you they haven't and I can see all sorts of problems with this.

    I think the Insurance should have a clause that states if you inform them the car is off the road, and the periods of time it will be there, the insurance should revert to a private propery parking insurance and carry the relevant deduction in payments for that time. Would that happen? Never!!

    I think it's 'clobber the motorist' year. Etta
    I totally agree with you on that one as I have suffered from having to pay tax and insurance on THREE cars that I could not drive! Car number one was hit (clipped) by an uninsured forty ton lorry. Once the spare wheel was fitted it was sort-of drive-able but the police slapped a Prohibition Notice on it so it had to be transported by lorry to my home address. As it was parked in the lane it had to be kept taxed and insured yet it was illegal to drive it until it was repaired! A spare car was got out of mothballs but the discs had rusted, did that, got it a fresh MOT and tax then two weeks later Saturday night vandals put a plank through the windscreen! Fixed that but six months later the gearbox shredded - back into mothballs. I then bought a Rover 820i, a twin-cam 16 valve jobbie with a TIMING BELT duh! I knew that I was risking it with no service history but winter was coming and the cold dark nights were drawing in. The plan was to leave the belt job until spring when the clocks went forward and the better weather came. Sadly the belt didn't last that long, it failed in Southsea 180 miles from home. At this point I discovered that my "Full breakdown recovery" must have been an introductory offer that reverted to a tow of up to 20 miles at renewal. To get the car home would be ú456 the RAC said! I left the car in Southsea and got home by bus and train. (now paying tax and insurance on TWO dead cars) As car number one, a Rover 800 turbo-diesel was taking a long time to repair it seemed to be a good idea to buy a 4x4 to round up all my ebayicon stuff and rescue the twin-cam. A Land Rover Discovery 300Tdi was bought, OK it had tax ready on it but I still had to insure it and the "No No Claims Bonus on the third car" rule applied! úsúsús. The Disco lasted three whole days, first a universal joint played up at fifty miles but much more seriously it boiled-up once the Devon hills were reached and only just made it to North Cornwall. The head gasket has blown because the radiator was devoid of its cooling fins. At this point I was paying tax and insurance on THREE DEAD CARS! I've since repaired the Rover 800 turbo-diesel and its been doing the work that the 4x4 was bought for, so now I'm only wasting tax and insurance on two dead cars. It really is a disgusting money-grabbing system that the government has put in place - and don't forget that they get Insurance Premium Tax as well as road tax! I do think that there ought to be a vehicle-out-of-service insurance rate as being stung for insurance on non-runners just isn't fair Oh by the way the Land Rover Discovery 300Tdi is infamous for boiling over and blowing head gaskets unless the radiator is new or as new. The excellent Land Rover agents at Whitstone said that lots of people replace cylinder heads and head gaskets but unless a NEW radiator is fitted the engine will blow again. Yup I'll agree with that! Look on the bright side - the government NEEDS the money!


  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder grumpy101 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    I had a quick look at the link and the "uninsured driving" bit is the biggest load of bol@cks that I've read for quite some time. IT IS NOT ABOUT UNINSURED DRIVING AT ALL its about getting money in. When did you ever read of of a "joyrider" being fined for driving without insurance? Oh never? I did hear of a Plymouth joyrider who already had a three month suspended sentence when he went joyriding again. Allegedly he ran red lights and exceeded the speed limit whilst trying to evade the police (60 in a 30 limit not 32!) Of course with the roads in Plymouth being somewhat congested he was soon stuck in a traffic jam and he was then arrested. In court the beak said that the crime was "really serious" so he increased the villains three month suspended sentence to a six month suspended sentence! In effect the joyrider was let off and allegedly he was later seen laughing outside the court. Absolutely disgusting when decent people get the full force of the law (fines and points) for the slightest misdemeanour's such as parking or being a couple of miles an hour over the limit. The problem of course is that the system cannot put points on a non-existent driving licence and nor can it fine drug addicts who have spent their last brass farthing on drugs. Locking these people up costs money so the system makes do with giving out Police Cautions or Suspended Sentences neither of which cost anything. Duh!


  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder grumpy101 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    Quite a few vehicles used on farms don't even have number plates. Quad bikes and trikes that never go on public roads for example.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    Quote Originally Posted by [problem]med&grumpy View Post
    Quite a few vehicles used on farms don't even have number plates. Quad bikes and trikes that never go on public roads for example.
    If they are not registered, they don't SORN or insurance


  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder queensclose Novitiate queensclose Novitiate

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    Default Re: Car Insurance on Private Property

    the general rule is if members of the pubic have access to were you intend to park then yes

    for example if the local landlord of the pub says you can leave it on his car park then yes because other members of the public use it. you can be prosecuted for drink driving private car parks

    as for farms thats different. if he had a farm shop the farmer normally has a small car park. the rest of the farm is off limits so its ok to ride quad bikes uninsured cars etc



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