Hello fellow Caggers.

As advised in a recent thread I applied for my CCA from Citibank on 19th March. No CCA was forthcoming by 3rd April (no surprise there then).

On 10th April I received this default notice.

In reply on 28th April I sent off the “failed to respond to CCA request” letter.

On 15th May I received a termination of your agreement from Citibank.

Now seeing as the account was in dispute through failure to provide my CCA, I have penned this reply to them.

Is this letter ok to send to them, or would it lack any credence in a court as evidence, due to technicalities and legality?

Also I sent the letters to their registered address, but the letters I receive come from a differing address. Would this have any bearing, surely they can be passed to the right department.

Regards,

Allets.

Looks good, though Citi do operate as a law unto themselves and will likely ignore it.

I would strongly consider submitting a complaint to the OFT.

You might like to point out to them that the default notice is invalid as well. They have only allowed you 13 days to remedy the default.

letter dated 7th

2 days for delivery

9th -22nd= 13 days

As they have terminated the account with a faulty DN, they can only claim the arrears

You might like to point out to them that the default notice is invalid as well. They have only allowed you 13 days to remedy the default.

letter dated 7th

2 days for delivery

9th -22nd= 13 days

 

As they have terminated the account with a faulty DN, they can only claim the arrears

I make from the 9th to the 22nd 14 days.

S.

Fair point but i was under the impression it had to be 14 CLEAR days, I.E delivered the 9th so the 14 days start from the 10th. perhaps someone could clarify for me

Fair point but i was under the impression it had to be 14 CLEAR days, I.E delivered the 9th so the 14 days start from the 10th. perhaps someone could clarify for me

This is from the CPR rules on service...

Deemed Service

 

6.26

 

A document, other than a claim form, served in accordance with these Rules or any relevant practice direction is deemed to be served on the day shown in the following table –

 

 

1. First class post (or other service which provides for delivery on the next business day) The second day after it was posted, left with, delivered to or collected by the relevant service provider provided that day is a business day; or if not, the next business day after that day.

I had not realised the default notice is borderline (thanks SF1961 for pointing that out, I had not noticed), as I received it on the 10th April. 10th to 22nd April equals 13 days, or 12 days if you don’t count the day it is received. Surely a statutory notice like this should have the means of being tracked, from posting to delivery, or are they too tight fisted?

Regarding the termination notice. This is dated 8th May, but I didn’t receive it until last Friday 15th May. A letter, even second class doesn’t take a week after posting to reach its destination.

I will send the letter in any case, as they have failed on both counts to provide and answer to why I have not received my CCA.

Quote from Enron "Looks good, though Citi do operate as a law unto themselves and will likely ignore it.

I would strongly consider submitting a complaint to the OFT".

What would be the likely response from the OFT? Or would it give me some amunition in court from their reply, if/when it comes to that?

 

What would be the likely response from the OFT? Or would it give me some amunition in court from their reply, if/when it comes to that?

Going to the OFT doesn't achieve much for you because they don't consider individual claims but what happens is that once they get enough complaints, they then investigate and possibly question citi's fitness to hold a consumer credit licence although the most the OFT do is usually a £50,000 fine.

You could complain to your local trading standards as well as Citi.

Did you keep the envelope the DN came in? if so, was it stamped first or second class? (makes a difference)

Just a couple of points also about your section 10 request.

In order to satisfy ICO guidance a section 10 notice should;

1.Be addressed to the Data Controller/Officer of the organisation.

2.Give a clear date by which you expect processing or sharing of your data to cease.

3.Give reasons as to why you want the processing of your data to stop.

There is a specific letter for a section 10 request in the Library on the front page (Which I drew up specifically to address ICO guidance)

Would do you no harm to send one out since my feeling is that your request as made within the body of your letter above-does not meet the requirements,and so they are not bound to comply.

Unfortunately although we know that Citi are very often guilty of being in breach of guidance,they are very quick to point this out to customers when the boot is on the other foot-dont give them reasons to do so.

As regards your complaints to the regs-as has been pointed out,the OFT will not deal with individual complaints.

You can file this online through Consumer direct,who will either take it up themselves or refer it to your local Trading Standards.

Theres nothing to stop you going to your local Trading Standards yourself-if you decide on that then take originals of all docs for them to copy.

Keep us posted.

Hello fellow Caggers.

A further development to my CitiBank debacle.

I received this interesting letter yesterday morning.

Does it seem as though they are under no obligation to provide me with my CCA, as they no longer have a contractual agreement with me. They are also not seeking to enforce any agreement with me.

Does this mean that they have admitted defeat, or is it not as easy as this?

Bearing in mind, I requested my CCA from them on 19th march 2009 and at that time my account had not been terminated.

Would anybody like to comment. More to the point, has anyone else received this letter from them?

Regards,

Allets.

Its not a new one-we have seen this before.

I'd suggest if you want a copy of your agreement then try this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html If they then ignore this or come back with one of their pathetic replies then take them to court !! - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/165349-smt37-morgan-stanley-goldfish-3.html#post2119750

 

Does it seem as though they are under no obligation to provide me with my CCA, as they no longer have a contractual agreement with me. They are also not seeking to enforce any agreement with me.

Does this mean that they have admitted defeat, or is it not as easy as this?

 

Regards,

Allets.

Hi Allets,

I've had that letter and if you want to stop paying then store the letter away... all responses to s78 requests are legally binding.. They will however continue to report non-payment and eventually default you though.

With help from Enron I responded with the following:-

Ref: Account: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

In response to your letter dated 12th Feb which was in itself a reply to my legally entitled Section 78 request for a copy of my Credit Card Agreement I find you still in default of supplying my CCA.

 

I note that section 172 outlines that statements by creditors are binding where made under inter alia section 78(1) and I therefore acknowledge your statement that you are not enforcing this agreement.

 

If however I am provided with a copy of the executed agreement containing all the prescribed terms I would be willing to reconsider my position

 

Regards

S.

Hello The Shadow.

I have actually been defaulted by CitiBank back in May 2009. But I can't understand why they sent me that letter.

It would seem that the different departments do not keep in touch with each other, so each doesn't know what the other is doing.

Is the letter a possible bargaining item for the future?

Regards,

Allets.

Hello The Shadow.

I have actually been defaulted by CitiBank back in May 2009. But I can't understand why they sent me that letter.

It would seem that the different departments do not keep in touch with each other, so each doesn't know what the other is doing.

Is the letter a possible bargaining item for the future?

 

Regards,

Allets.

As mentioned in the post above responses to s78 requests are legally binding therefore if they say they are not enforcing the agreement then they cant enforce the agreement.

You could try a subject access request if you still wanted to see your agreement although I'm not sure if Citi are sending out agreements in reply to any requests at the moment. The other possibility is through CPR 31.16 but this requires an application to court to get sight of the agreement.

As I said I've stopped paying and advised them they need to send me a copy of the agreement before they'll get anything further, I await and attempts at legal action with that letter to rebuff them.

S.

Hello The Shadow.

I have actually been defaulted by CitiBank back in May 2009. But I can't understand why they sent me that letter.

It would seem that the different departments do not keep in touch with each other, so each doesn't know what the other is doing.

Is the letter a possible bargaining item for the future?

 

Regards,

Allets.

Here is my thread from 2 years ago http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/citicards/69600-steveh2508-citicard.html

I did get a typo-filled patronising letter from Brian Smith (their solicitor then) which I replied to 'up to the third lacehole' and they went off in a hissy fit and sold the account to First Cretins.

I've not paid either of them a penny and it has gone completely quiet. :grin:

allets - your letter in #11 to me seems like good news, they have closed the account, and they are not enforceing the agreement with you. Assuming they havent sold the account on, is it a case now of matter closed?

I havent heard anything from Citi for nearly two months now, the last letter being that of "Impending default". They havent sent any credit card agreement and disregarded my "account in dispute" letters. Since this was originally an Associates Card, I doubt whether they have a copy in any case. I wish they would send me that letter too!

They have traditionally sold accounts to Hillesden and more recently CABOT.

Since assignment should be done complete with documentation,if the account is assigned to a third party,then a request under the CCA could be made to the assignee.....if they cannot supply,then they should not have the account in the first place.

The guidance from regulators is quite clear.

The original creditor ALWAYS bears some responsibility to the lender.

This will also make interesting reading for you:

http://www.creditlaw.co.uk/Documents/true%20copies.pdf

Thanks for that Enron. I would have thought a signature would have to be a minimum requirement as evidence.

To all others who have replied since I posted my latest letter, it has been carefully filed away.

To the Shadow, that looks like an excellent reply to the letter which I am considering sending to them.

Regards,

Allets.

are you mad? let sleeping dogs lie!

the DN is not "slightly out" it is faulty- just as you cant be "slightly pregnant" you either are or you aren't!

they have terminated on the back of a faulty DN

they have confirmed they are not pursuing you.

you should not do anything which gives the impression that you do not consider the agreement terminated

IMO if you are not careful the second para of your letter of 18th may could come back to bite you it reads that you dispute the termination of the agreement!

Just to bring this to the fore again, I received another letter from CitiBank on Saturday stating that they enclose a true copy of my agreement with them, even though it is a year late since my original request for my CCA AND not having any contact or correspondence with them since May 2009.

Here is the latest letter, interestingly it states that the copy agreement does not included the signature box, signature or date of signature in accordance with regulation 3(2)(b)(ii) of the consumer credit (Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents) Regulations 1983, we are not required to provide them. However another creditor who I know has a valid CCA with me sent me a copy of the original form complete with my signature and dated by me in my handwriting, I would make the suggestion that CitiBank no longer have that original document.

Here is the first page of my supposed Agreement between CitiBank and me which I supposedly signed in 1998, but is in fact dated 1 Dec 2008. This document alone runs to 14 pages:

A further document titled Credit agreement, this is 7 pages long:

I take it they are now clutching at straws with what to do next and none of these documents relate to my original CCA.

Allets.

Gonna PM you.

i would file and ignore it - no response