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I hate to see people park in Disabled space's when they don't need to, and never do so myself. My wife, however, recently became very ill and currently uses a wheelchair. Despite not having a Blue badge I chose to park in a disabled bay at ASDA in Livingston. No other way I could get her out of the car.
Anyway, Town and City Parking left me a Civil Penalty Notice for £60, or £30 if paid within 10 days. I have no intention of paying this, and note the other threads saying not to contact them. 2 things here though: Firstly, I think the laws in Scotland are slightly different than England/Wales. Anyone able to confirm this? Secondly, there is always this doubt where I could take a £30 'fine' and be done with it or risk that doubling. Just want to clarify the laws and the best way to deal with it.
If ASDA are breaking any rules/laws then I would like to be able to write an informed letter to them pointing this out too. I did ask at the customer service desk but just got a bad attitude in reply about finding someone in the carpark to take it up with. In addition, if TCP are breaking rules/laws then I'd also like advice on facts I can quote in an informed letter to my local councillor.
To call an invoice a 'civil penalty' for starters. Look at the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and 2006 Fraud Act. And the original penalty issue: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd -v- New Garage and Motor Co Ltd (1914)
Can't fathom Asda. Who in their legal compliance department authorised putting up signs threatening 'civil penalties' at every store in the country?
You're best off collecting all the paperwork from Town and City, posting it here once you've scrubbed off all details, and then we can look at the unlawfulness of their junkmail.
Town and City. Well known. ignore them. just keep all the paperwork safely tucked away. Do they still use AA Hutton to try and scare people into paying ?
You may find (depending on the location) that ASDA are not actually the landowners either, and as such have no authority to levy any invoice for parking - whatever their 'justification'. You can find out by referring to the Land Registry Scotland, but there might be a fee.
Its taken several weeks but I now have the letter from TCP to say that they have my details from the DVLA and that if I don't pay £60 within x days they start charging £10 admin fee & will get debt collectors involved. Now, I am young & i'm ready to fight this. I know they are breaking the law & I know from TV programs about mortgage arrears etc that this threatining language is also illegal. Despite all of this, I do find the letters intimidating & can fully understand most people paying up. I have to stay strong though & refuse.
The first thing I want to do is reply by mail., I remember there being a template letter on this site somewhere but can't find it. I'd appreciate a link if anyone can give it to me. Once resolved I also want to take this to the press (related to a journalist), or to one of these TV shows like Rogue Traders or Watchdog, or even the One Show. I urge any readers who have succesfully NOT paid TCP to do the same. The more people do this and write to ASDA the better. They can't ignore the hundreds of people I have read about online with the same problem.
Well... as you'll read from the posts on here, debt collectors never come to your door so its all talk. The only person who can come knocking is the bailiff to enforce a CCJ.
If you just want to stop it, wait for the next letter and send it back to them as not known at this address..
Complain to Asda though. Ask for a contact in their legal compliance department - they will have one, but you'll have to get past their customer service phone monkey.
Or just write and complain and you might get some vouchers.
BBC aren't interested in these stories - they're terrified of saying 'don't pay' because they'll be in hot water if a parking company then takes a bunch of people to court just to make a point.
Also try Trading Standards, but be aware they can be hit and miss depending on what you local office/hut is like.
It's no surprise to ASDA - they've been apalled at the cavalier attitude certain motorists have to behaving reasonably. As I recall, the introduction of 'civil penalties' was a direct resuld ot able-bodied motorists parking their vehicles in areas designated by the supermarket for disabled or parent and child spaces. Why shouldn't the firm do all they can to ensure the smooth flow of vehicles on their property?
It's all very well saying they've no right to collect, but if the motorists DID just suit themselves and park their vehicle where they wanted, rather than where the firm had indicated - then I'm all for it. I'd even support clamping if it wasn't so counter-productive. Currently in Scotland there is due to be a change in the law to make such enforcement a 'proper' pcn offence, rather than a contract breach. It's also being well supported.
• to call an invoice a 'civil penalty' is downright bloody fraudulent.
• it's unregulated and there are no ways to appeal, so your rules of them being 'able to do all they can' just means that many people are being [problem]med out of cash. For every idiot who abuses a disabled bay, there's another victim who has done nothing wrong - like our original poster.
• Asda have been running supermarkets for quite some time. The notion that customers have all of a sudden started parking willy nilly, thus calling for Asda to think up a new name for parking tickets is laughable.
• very very few people do actually abuse disabled spots in supermarkets. It's not an epidemic. Yes, some idiots do, but they always have and they always will. It's not a case of Asda coming to the end of their tether like an angry headmaster, as you seem to be making out.
I wonder what the attitude would be like if they went around the actual store and put 'civil penalty notices' on trolleys in peoples' ways? By your reasoning, they would be entitled to do exactly that, thus enabling the smooth flow of shoppers inside!
Fraudulent? So is a CRA calling a consumer dispute a 'default' - but what you going to do about it? The industry has evolved the way it has because (a) people let them and (b) there is a real problem.
You can appeal to the courts, should it come to that - and a Sheriff will decide on whether the payment is due. This is only slightly different that the tactics used by Glasgow City Council who appear only to back down AFTER you file your claim with the Parking Adjudicator. What's the difference?
A car parked without a blue badge, in a disabled spot is fair game. The fact you fail to see this when it is plainly a condition of the ability to park. I agree there will be some who need to be given the same level of access but don't have the necessary badge - but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. The process of stopping, unloading and then parking isn't outwith the bounds of reason. Unless you expect ASDA to ask for medical certificates and declarations of illness, the blue badge scheme is the closest we get. At my local ASDA, the number of non-badge holders using the spaces had dropped considerably, there are now usually always spaces there, when previously there was none. So, for your very very few claim to work, maybe that's at your local store, but it isn't at mine.
As for your last paragraph - you'd need to make a great leap of ignorance before you could assume that. Anf for the record, I had to watch my father, dying of cancer (without a blue badge) walk 100's of yards from 'standard parking' because others may have needed the space. It took him almost 10 minutes to walk to the entrance doors. He died before a blue badge could be issued.
Finally, hopefully Scotland's Disability Parking (on private land) will be enacted into Law, but the OP will still be at fault and unable to challenge a ticket to the Adjudicator because it is for Blue Badge holders.
... Currently in Scotland there is due to be a change in the law to make such enforcement a 'proper' pcn offence, rather than a contract breach. It's also being well supported.
I take it this is only in relation to Blue Badges and not private parking in general. God forbid it is the latter.
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I just want to add that I agree with those who think able bodied people should be fined for parking in disabled spaces. It should be law but it has to be monitored and controlled legally, with fair rights of appeal. There has to be an understanding that disabled people don't always have their badge with them.
That is not the case so why should a private individual/company have the right to claim cash (avoiding the word 'fine'). Its no different from someone putting up no smoking signs in their bar, before the smoking ban, then issuing them with a CPN when they lit up. If its not law then all they could do was tell the person to put it out, or leave the bar. Parking is/should be no different!
The biggest issues with TCP is the threatening language with I think amounts to nothing more than extortion. I WILL go to court before handing over a penny to them.
Finally, to the comment by 'buzby' re dropping someone off then parking & coming back from them... do you REALLY think it is reasonable to leave a vulnerable person sitting in a chair by the side of the road when you go hunting for a parking space, then again afterwards while you return for the car?
I can forsee the situation where people would be given council PCNs AND private parking [problem] invoices. The private parking co's would use any change in the law to their advantage.
I take it this is only in relation to Blue Badges and not private parking in general. God forbid it is the latter.
Absolutely - it is because of the rampant disregard of disabled parking spaces by motorists who know that the blue badge has no relevance (yet) on private property - has caused this to arrive on the radar.
Other issues thorn up is enforcement - who does it? As they are currently being drafted, it will NOT be up to the police or councils to protect these spaces, but duly registered and bonded parking firms who are 'employed' by the landowners. Clamping will still not be allowed, and signage must be to an 'approved' standard. They're still working on the 'appeals' process and it looks as though this will be handled by the Scottish Parking Adjudication Service (SPAS) but no idea who's going to be paying for it.
True - but I have a feeling this isn't going to work in the way you imagine. It will be for major third-party issues. Any complaints about fines (if/when the Adjudication process is complete), it will be a 'civil recovery matter once again. Just as existing decriminalised parking is.
Civil Penalty Notice at ASDA
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Originally Posted by buzby
