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PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
I received a pcn from G24 a few weeks ago demanding £75/£95 for overstaying at a Wickes car park. I am the RK but of course have no idea who was driving the vehicle at the time, expecially as the photo 'evidence' offered shows the car entering and leaving the car park at certain times, but no evidence at all that it was stationary in the car park between those times (the drivers of the car sometimes go to Wickes' several times a day, and I am sure the 'evidence' refers to more than one visit on the day in question...)
Consequently, after reading this excellent site, I chose to ignore the G24 invoice, noticing that while it seemed to refer to the 'responsibility' of the owner/keeper/hirer/driver' to pay, it carefully avoided any reference to any 'legal' liability, and was generally quite amateurishly woolly and ambiguous in its wording.
However, a 'Final Reminder' arrived recently now stating quite explicitly that as the 'registered owner/keeper/hirer/driver...you are legally liaible for the parking charge even if you were not the driver at the time'...
From what I have read here this claim is quite false, and I was wondering a) am I correct in tis understanding? b) if I am, has G24 committed any kind of offense by making this claim (which they studiously avoided in the original PCN) c) if they have, can I usefully report them to anybody without too much time or expense?
Naturally the letter ends with a threat to 'forward the outstanding debt to a Debt Recovery Agency' in case of 'failure to pay the increased amount', but does not specify any period of time within such payment must be made before such action is taken. As 'official looking' documents go, this this is one of the worst I've seen....
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
It is the words that council paperwork uses - used to trick you. In fact "owner/keeper/hirer/driver" can be four different people. if you want some fun just send the PPC invoice to the council and copy it to PATROL and tell them it is non complaint with the regulations and that you are happy to go to adjudication. (keep a copy of of the PPC paperwork yourself)).
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
Originally Posted by lamma
It is the words that council paperwork uses - used to trick you. In fact "owner/keeper/hirer/driver" can be four different people. if you want some fun just send the PPC invoice to the council and copy it to PATROL and tell them it is non complaint with the regulations and that you are happy to go to adjudication. (keep a copy of of the PPC paperwork yourself)).
Thanks for the reply but I was wondering in what way it's 'non-compliant'?...
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
Originally Posted by Al27
G24 are a joke. Expect a few letters but they will give up if you ignore them.
I'm will continue to ignore them.
But I have been wondering whether or not it might be possible to bind them with a contract of my own - using a letter informing them of my fees (£95 a throw sounds reasonable) for 'receiving any future communication on any subject from them or their agents', and stating that 'receipt of any such communication would constitute acceptance of these terms and fees'. This is pretty much analogous to their attempt to extract fees from people who use car parks, since it seems to be possible to set up a contract between two parties with any terms whatsoever as long as each is aware of the terms and has a choice in accepting them. (Though I think there is a concept of 'fairness' which I'm not sure about).
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
Originally Posted by piano4tay
I'm will continue to ignore them.
But I have been wondering whether or not it might be possible to bind them with a contract of my own - using a letter informing them of my fees (£95 a throw sounds reasonable) for 'receiving any future communication on any subject from them or their agents', and stating that 'receipt of any such communication would constitute acceptance of these terms and fees'. This is pretty much analogous to their attempt to extract fees from people who use car parks, since it seems to be possible to set up a contract between two parties with any terms whatsoever as long as each is aware of the terms and has a choice in accepting them. (Though I think there is a concept of 'fairness' which I'm not sure about).
Anyone ever tried something like this?
If it were to reach court proceedings it would not be unreasonable to claim reciprocal costs. time taken to research the issue,time taken to read correspaondance. time taken to compose letters of reply, time taken post them off. Postal costs and telephone costs could also be added.
If you wish to correspond with them, which is not advisable due to the fact that they are mostly paid to sit a lick stamps and send off standard template letters, then threaten them with the above.
But I wouldnt waste any more time with these clowns
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
Originally Posted by Brian Foxwood
You are responsible for your car whether the ticket comes from the council or from an Independent Enforcement Agency (IEA). It's the law.
I take it your are in the employ of said PPC's
What's the going rate for licking stamps. I also hear stamps have a calorific value. So me thinks you maybe gaining weight but dont know why.
Can I suggets watching ''you are what you eat'' by Gillian Mckieth.
What you do is have a crap in a sandwhich box. Give it a sniff. If it smells like glue and is a bit sticky then lay off ths stamps and have a bit of fibre.
Then get a life.!!
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
Originally Posted by Brian Foxwood
Legal parking regulations mean that vehicle keepers are responsible for the manner in which said vehicle is used.
Pooh I smell Troll Sh*t. Stop talking out your arse.
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Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
Legal Parking under the Road traffic ACT applies to the PUBLIC HIGHWAY or that for a road maintained from local Athority funds, NOT Private Property never has and never will
all you are doing is making another quote from "Perkys Bible" which is utter tosh , and no legal standing
pop down the local Libary and get a copy of the Road Traffic Act, read the REAL LAW then,
perky share's took yet another dive today current value -0.05p included with each is a special Parking Invoice,
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
Originally Posted by Brian Foxwood
Legal parking regulations mean that vehicle keepers are responsible for the manner in which said vehicle is used.
shame that the law of the land overrides your 'regulations' - oh and by the way they are not 'regulations' at all. On planet Perky perhaps they are, when does the mothership come back to take you home. These have to be some of the most hopeless PPC posts we have had for a while - and we have had some bad ones. Not even 1 out of 10 Brian, sorry.
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
Originally Posted by Brian Foxwood
Legal parking regulations mean that vehicle keepers are responsible for the manner in which said vehicle is used.
"Legal parking regulations"?....I'm curious as to what that means. Do you mean that the registered keeper is always legally responsible for how a car is used? If your car is stolen and used to commit a crime, are you responsible for the crime?....a little known fact indeed!!
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
Originally Posted by piano4tay
. Do you mean that the registered keeper is always legally responsible for how a car is used? If your car is stolen and used to commit a crime, are you responsible for the crime?....a little known fact indeed!!
More importantly, if my car is stolen and used in say a bank robbery, does this also mean I get a cut of the booty?
Re: PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
With big brains like Brian/Rudigger/Gertrude/latest boring Perky incarnation leading the PPC charge we should all be worried. Their wisdom and wit will cut us down and their razor sharp legal arguments will lay waste our pathetic attempts. Then again maybe they're knuckle dragging plonkers.
PCN - 'Legal Liability lies with owner/keeper/hirer/driver'
from G24 a few weeks ago demanding £75/£95 for overstaying at a Wickes car park. I am the RK but of course have no idea who was driving the vehicle at the time, expecially as the photo 'evidence' offered shows the car entering and leaving the car park at certain times, but no evidence at all that it was stationary in the car park between those times (the drivers of the car sometimes go to Wickes' several times a day, and I am sure the 'evidence' refers to more than one visit on the day in question...)
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Originally Posted by lamma
