Thread: Vanquis CCA Request

Hi People,

I stupidly took out a vanquis card with a limit of £250 and an APR of 39.9%!!!!, Which apparantly I applied for online (can't remember it was two years ago)

Since then they have increased my limit up to £1000 but also hiked the APR to 49.9% which has crippling minimum
monthly repayments.

I sent them a CCA request and they have sent back a blank which doesn't have my name, original credit limit, APR or signature. It says 'We will set your credit limit and advise you' and 'You will be on Tier A, B, C, or D interest rate (being different amounts)

Have they legally fulfilled the request or not as I don't think they have.

Thanks Chaps

They have fulfilled their obligation under the CCA as they have provided you with a copy of your 'agreement'; however it is definitely not enforceable. The following is a response for the receipt of an application form & T&Cs but you could amend to suit you:

Dear Sirs,

Account Number: XXX

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of an application form and your companies current terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the terms and conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;
As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:
(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.
It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

Hi there,

Welcome to CAG. I'm sure you'll gain some good advice from our members.



Good luck and keep the thread updated as and when things progress.

Originally Posted by mhenry9885

I don't actually think I did apply online, surely they have to prove this first?

They have to provide an agreement, never mind prove you applied online - cheeky beggars!

I told her it's harassment but denied it was as I owed them money.

I think they will be getting an harassment letter.

Send the harassment letter, also keep a log of all calls received from them (whether you answer them or not).

BTW if you refuse to answer the security questions they ask, they can't pursue the conversation ;-)

The actual agreement must state the interest rate applicable at the time of signing the agreement. If you are unsure suggest you post up your 'agreement' with the personal details removed for CAGers to advise further.

This looks like the T&Cs that would have been attached as part of your agreement & they, quite correctly, state the financial data; however there would have been a sheet with your name & address details & signature on it that is the actual agreement. On this it would prob. state which Tier applied to you & refer you to this financial clause in the T&Cs.

However to be enforceable, the agreement plus these T&Cs would have to form the same document i.e. these T&Cs couldn't have come from a later document & the OC would have to prove it so.

Have you got any other docs. other than those you've posted up already, mhenry?

Those you've posted are not an 'agreement' as under the CCA1974.

Originally Posted by mhenry9885

It is headed 'Vanquis Credit Card Agreement and Full Terms'

If this is all they have, it is DEFINITELY not enforceable, it's T&Cs pure & simple, full stop.

If you haven't sent them the letter in Post 2 yet, amend it to reflect the fact that they have only sent T&Cs & send it Rec. Del, do not sign (print or use digital signature) Give them 10 days to produce an agreement with the prescribed terms & your details on it, preferably an exact copy with your signature & date on it.

It should do but won't necessarily - even if you specifically ask for it

However if they then produced one at a later date as part of a claim against you, not only would they look pretty stupid, you could also claim they didn't comply properly with the DPA in that they did not supply you with all the information you were entitled to.

The only way to reliably flush it out is under the CPR31.

No, you apply to see if you have grounds for taking them to court!

Suggest you read this thread carefully before you start down this route though - there can be cost implications.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...uldnt-use.html