Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


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  1. #1
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    Default What is adequate compensation? **Success!**

    Hi all,

    Back in November 2008 my sister applied for a loan with the Yorkshire Bankicon to consolidate her outgoings and also purchase a new car. The bank advised her to take out an "Offset mortgage" were the car loan would be separate from the consolidation loan and she would not pay any interesticon on the car loan, she agreed to this and they advised on the day of signing that the money would be available within 4-5 weeks.

    Cutting a long story short, the actual mortgageicon adviser became ill and my sisters application was not passed on to another member of the relevant department to deal with, thus after countless calls to the bank asking what the problem was (which they could not answer) my sister was advised to complain to the banks customer engagement officer with regards to a complaint, which i did on my sisters behalf.

    I explained to the bank in detail that because of the banks inadequate staff being ill my sisters application was ignored and furthermore the bank has caused undue stress, upset and grief to my sister and her family, i also explained that they have had to use alternative funding (1500 GBP overdraft facility/ Credit Cards etc.) whilst waiting for the funds to be paid into their account which was February 16th 2009. I also stated that they have 8 weeks to send a final response and an offer of compensation after their complete investigation, if they can't i will pass the complaint on to fosicon.

    Today my sister received a reply basically stating that the bank were very sorry about this and have offered 100GBP in compensation and will also look into paying unpaid direct debits which were an indirect cause of the money becoming available for her to use almost 3 months after signing. The unpaid direct debits were 3 @ 38GBp/ letter with the Natwesticon bank.

    Now my question is, is this adequate compensation for the grief and upset caused?. Should i refuse it and forward the complaint to FOS?. Should i re-contact the bank and tell them this in no way is adequate compensation and ask them to make another offer even though they have sent the final response?. After all the amount it seems they are prepared to pay is 214GBP.

    Oh lets not forget the bank sending her a bunch of flowers which she received sometime in January for their lameness. Total admission of guilt in my opinion this was.

    Any advice would be appreciated as always .

    Regards.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    I think I'd go, at least as an opening gambit, for the cost of the additional funding (with any interesticon), together with any other costs incurred.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    I'd agree and add a bit on top for stress and inconvenience.
    phone callsicon are verifiable, additional costs from the point the money SHOULD have been in the account and to when it WAS in the account. If for example she was charged interesticon on the credit cards then it is a loss. If she had to do a cash advance then it is a loss. Overdraft interest is a cost as well.


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder payback68 Novitiate payback68's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    Thank you guys for your comments,

    I think the Bank has tried pulling the wool over her eyes regarding compensation as this re-mortgage transaction was not just a few grand, it amounts to 47,000GBP plus the bank charged a set up fee of almost 1000GBP also.

    Would you advise that we send a letter to the fosicon detailing what we think is adequate compo on what you have stated?. Bearing in mind SP that as you are aware via my PM that the FOS called and asked them what compo would suffice on Friday.

    Understandably we can't really put a price on the compo as we are not aware of what amounts of compo are awarded by FOS.

    Thanks again guys, your opinions are always appreciated.

    Regards

    PB68.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    No and I don't think the product set up fee being refunded is reasonable either since she took the product out. Had she changed her mind and they charged her, then it is a different matter. I think you have decide what you think is reasonable and negotiate middle ground.


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder payback68 Novitiate payback68's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    Quote Originally Posted by yourbank View Post
    No and I don't think the product set up fee being refunded is reasonable either since she took the product out. Had she changed her mind and they charged her, then it is a different matter. I think you have decide what you think is reasonable and negotiate middle ground.
    Hi,

    She went ahead from day 1 with the advice she was given and the acceptance from the bank that the re-mortgage would go through swiftly. The only people who are to blame for this going pearshaped are the bank mortgageicon advisory staff. I will post the original letter of complaint later for your perusal, as it may explain what difficulties she was put in because of the banks actions in more detail.

    Thanks again yourbank.

    Regards

    PB68.


  7. #7
    Basic Account Holder payback68 Novitiate payback68's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    Hi,

    The letter sent to the bank by me and to the fosicon is below.

    Customer Engagement Manager
    Yorkshire Bankicon, 3rd Floor
    40 St. Vincent Place
    Glasgow
    G1 2HL

    Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Dear Sir/Madam

    Please accept this letter as a formal complaint regarding a simple re-mortgage transaction that was arranged at the xxxxxxxxxx branch of the Yorkshire Bank in November 2008.

    In November 2008 my husband and I arranged a re-mortgage through the Yorkshire Bank and furthermore we were accepted with no problems whatsoever, we were also assured that the transaction would take approximately 4-5 weeks before the funds would be available in our Bank Account.

    Around the 19th December we become quite concerned that we had received no correspondence whatsoever from the bank at all, either by telephone or by post, the funds should have been in our account, so therefore we contacted the bank by telephone to see if everything was ok and as such were told that the person who was dealing with our application was ill. We accepted this on the understanding that somebody else would be dealing with it within the relevant department, however, it seems this was not the case, our application apparently was ignored. We waited until Monday 5th January until we called the bank a second time and we were told that the advisor would be back the following Monday.

    As of this date now we have still not had any correspondence at all, apart from my husband and I calling into the branch and asking your teller staff what seems to be the problem, to which they could not answer, but provided us with a complaints procedure form.

    As you will understand we expected this transaction to go through as your staff have advised us i.e. “straightforward and simple”, it seems this was not the case. Because of the incompetence of your staff we have been in slight financial turmoil.

    The whole idea of us borrowing money on our mortgageicon was I am sure that you know and understand was to consolidate our outgoings and to pay off creditors. Because of the actions of the bank we are now in a worse situation than before we applied for the loan
    .
    Please take note that because of your inadequate staff being ill or for that matter not passing our account over to somebody else in the relevant department to deal with, we have had to use alternative funding i.e our credit cards for certain transactions and make use of a 1500gbp overdraft facility. We have also had to pay bank charges for three unpaid direct debits from the Natwesticon Bank costing us 38gbp/letter. We would assume you are aware that we have had to endure interesticon charges also .Your bank has caused us grief and upset and may we also add that we were approximately 3000gbp in the red before the actual money eventually came through on Monday 16th February, if your bank can’t provide the service we require do not profess you can.

    We hope you understand all the above amounts to a serious complaint, and obviously the lack of respect for your customers makes us think whether we made the right choice in borrowing money from your bank in the first place, however, we will give you the opportunity to put things right regarding this ridiculous situation, we will also supply any information that you require during your ”complete” investigation. We will provide copies of bank statements and credit card statements to prove that we have been penalized through no fault of our own, at your request.

    We would really appreciate your due diligence in this matter, a simple acknowledgement of our complaint in writing within 5 working days and a detailed response within 8 weeks from the date of this letter explaining why this has happened and a suitable offer of compensation will suffice, before we seek the services of the Financial Ombudsman. Please ensure that all future correspondence is made in writing only, as written correspondence will be required for the relevant authorities if we have to forward our complaint.

    May we also add that the teller staff within this branch have been more than helpful with our scenario however, the actions of the mortgageicon advisory staff is appalling to say the least. We worked out all our transactions/ bills based on their statement that this revenue would have been available in our account to use when they stated it would be.

    We await your reply.

    Yours Faithfully




    Mr. xxx Mrs. xxx


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder payback68 Novitiate payback68's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    The fosicon have stated after their phone callicon to my sister on Friday and asking what she deems as compo have stated that the matter will be resolved within a month. Like i have previously stated do i forward another letter on her behalf to FOS or just accept their ruling on adequate compo?.Afterall the bank has given their final responseicon.

    Regards.

    PB68.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    How much are your actual losses? How much money did you have to spend that you should not have had to spend had everything worked the first time?

    I'm not sure you'll get much, if anything for delay, distress and inconvenience as the amount suffered seems quite tame based on the posts above. I'd class it as severe irritation.


  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder payback68 Novitiate payback68's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    Kraken with respect please expand on your comment of "severe irritation & tame".

    Your post makes no sense whatsoever to be honest!.

    Firstly it's not me who has suffered a loss it's my sister and her husband and the kids (4 off). Now do you think that they would actually know penny for penny what their losses are/where at the time this re- mortgageicon was sorted out?.

    This is what we will decifre and prove if need be depending on what fosicon say. The advice i was after was "should we contact the FOS again" regarding their phone callicon about compo and NO we are not trying to rip off the bank regarding their shortfalls which in my opinion from your comments are what you are insinuating, forgive me if i am wrong.

    Kraken in future please read the posts correctly..

    Regards.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    the question was essentially how much compensation you were entitled, to, should you pursue for more? I was only trying to get more info so I could properly advise.

    fosicon will assess your compensation under two general heads -
    your actual losses; and
    in some cases a payment for the delay distress and inconvenience suffered.

    The former - you need to prove what your losses are
    The latter, is only awarded where substantial inconvenience has actually been suffered, for eg a wrecked holidayicon, home improvement project gone bad meaning, for eg, that you were without water for a good period or in rented property where you suffered through extensive repairs. You need to suffer distress and inconvenience to get an award, not just a severe irritation.

    Where awards are made they are traditionally nominal, only a few hundred pounds for 6 months + of inconvenience.

    Based on your comments I'm not sure that your circumstance sounds in damages for the latter. You are likely to have a claim for the former but you need to figure out what the losses actually were and establish that these were within the reasonable contemplation of all the parties at the time the contract was agreed. Hence my question - what were the actual losses.

    If you don't know the answer the chances are there are few losses. Take the £200 or so offered.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    Quote Originally Posted by payback68 View Post
    Kraken with respect please expand on your comment of "severe irritation & tame".

    Your post makes no sense whatsoever to be honest!.

    Firstly it's not me who has suffered a loss it's my sister and her husband and the kids (4 off). Now do you think that they would actually know penny for penny what their losses are/where at the time this re- mortgageicon was sorted out?.

    This is what we will decifre and prove if need be depending on what fosicon say. The advice i was after was "should we contact the FOS again" regarding their phone callicon about compo and NO we are not trying to rip off the bank regarding their shortfalls which in my opinion from your comments are what you are insinuating, forgive me if i am wrong.

    Kraken in future please read the posts correctly..

    Regards.
    Can I make the point that I asked Kraken1 to look at this thread because his knowledge of the FOS is very very good and I felt his input would help you.


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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    I agree with Kraken in as much as I think £200 is more than reas
    onable considering the situation. fosicon do not tend to award over this amount unless there was severe distress and inconvenience over a prolonged amount of time. Obviously if you can prove financial loss this would be different but I do not see that this is the case here. Close to £200 and a bunch of flowers seems very generous to me and perhaps your relatives should be reasonable and accept what has been offered rather than attempting to drag this out in the hope of a high payout.

    I get the impression that you think the compensation should be much higher but the mistake is just not big enough. I worked for some time as a complaint handler for another high street bank and I would be very suprised if Fos increased on the amount already offered. I would advise you take what is being offered.


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder payback68 Novitiate payback68's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    Thanks guys for your comments, they are all appreciated.

    This is the first time i have known fosicon to actually phone somebody regarding a complaint and ask the complainant what they decide is adequate compensation to end the dispute.

    However, considering the actual set up cost which amounted to almost 1000GBP i would assume that 100GBP + repaying 3 overdrafticon fees is not in any way or form adequate.

    The signing of the agreement was based on the advice given by the mortgageicon advisor that the funds would be available when they stated they would be, hopefully FOS will take this into consideration. Bearing this in mind, if i went to a bank and asked for a 47000GBP loan and they stated that the funds would be available within 4-5 weeks and they were not available for 3 months, personally i would at the least want the actual set up fee back + compensation obviously providing the necessary evidence. FOS have asked for no other paperwork.

    I will update the thread when i have more info.

    Regards.

    PB68.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    they are not losses and therefore are not recoverable. Compensation is based on your losses, not their gain and not on any punitive basis. Waste of a stamp in my opinion,

    If you want more go back and say you'll settle for £300. I think this might be the best you can get. It is a small enough increase that they might wash it to avoid the full hoo-har, not so great that it is worth fighting it.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    Just a quick update caggers, nothing of substantial importance, but fosicon have called a second time and stated that the dispute has been passed to another department

    Will update the thread as and when required;-)

    Regards

    PB68.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation?

    Hello folks,

    fosicon have been in touch with me sis and asked her if 300 + a refund of the charges she has had to endure from the Nat West Bank would suffice, which she has agreed to. To be honest she has not really provided the essential proof in my opinion to be able to justify adequate compo, but she is happy with what they have done. So this thread is closed.

    Thanks for all your comments.

    Regards.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation? **Success!**

    Very well done, you. Glad this has worked out in the end - and remember not many people are too satisfied with a fosicon outcome

    Moved to the success forum and retitled accordingly

    I'll leave the thread open for those who wish to reiterate what I've already said here

    Always happy to help where I can!
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    Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.


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  19. #19
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    Default Re: What is adequate compensation? **Success!**

    Thanks for that car 2403.

    It's thanks to this website that she has managed to fight the Bank with my assistance and although it maybe a hollow victory, it is a victory.

    Hopefully this thread may assist other people who are taking on Banks and are thinking of involving fosicon with a similar complaint.

    Regards.



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