Underwriting Sheet - Using CPR31.16

**42man** · 1st May 2009 14:20

If you are attempting to get the Underwriting Sheet, the only possible way forward is to use the CPR 31.16 as outlined in this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...uldnt-use.html

· details of any agreements between lender/broker/packager, written or unwritten, in relation to commissions or any other payments
· Underwriting sheet or other such document recording any commission (or other) payment made to an intermediary or packager

This cagger did win as a result of taking the non compliance with the CPR31.16 - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post2119750

Be advised that if it is returned and there is no figure on the sheet it has probably been deleted, in which case you can order them to confirm that it is a true copy, and possibly inspect the original....

**42man** · 1st May 2009 14:33

You are entitled to the data contained within a document if it falls within certain filing systems under the Data Protection Act a good case to see this is in Ezzias vs Welsh Ministers

Under CPR 31.16 you are entitled to the copy of the actual document

**heliosfa** · 9th June 2009 12:40

So what would be the first stes to getting the underwriting sheet? do we just send them a letter requesting it?

As for the "evidence" i am guessing that we would need to provide the request and details about other instances of secret comissions?

H

**42man** · 11th June 2009 16:43

This is a work in progress......I need it verified by a higher authority...!!

Civil Procedure icon

Rules 31.16

Dear Sirs

Account number

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a true copy of the underwriting sheet or any other documents showing any commissions paid by you to the broker or by the broker to you. I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be undisclosed commissions.

Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore only a copies of the original documents in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

Regards

**landy_alert** · 11th June 2009 17:16

Hi 42man,

We specifically asked for a copy of the Underwriting Sheet or other document showing commission in our SAR icon

, but what we received was an A4 sheet with details of our income, property value, other mortgage icon

plus lots of other figures relating to these etc but absolutely no reference to commission etc. In their accompanying letter they refer to this document as the 'Underwriting details'. Now I don't know whether this is what an underwriting sheet would look like if there WAS no secret commission, or whether they have deliberately sent us something different assuming we wouldn't know what it should look like (which we don't!). We did pay a disclosed commission to the broker, but this isn't mentioned on there as far as I can see either.

Regards,

Landy x

**postggj** · 11th June 2009 17:22

42 Man

Ime Glad We Think Along The Same Lines

The Usual Crap From A Certain Insurance Co Is Bog Off

Corporate Sensativity

Only A Disclosure Order Through The Courts Would Force Them To Release This Data

We Are In Need Of A Cast Iron Template In Law To Use

Go For It

**42man** · 12th June 2009 08:31

Postggj is spot on in saying that only a court order will reveal these details.....Landy, they haven't sent you the underwriting sheet !!!

**heliosfa** · 12th June 2009 11:01

Originally Posted by 42man

This is a work in progress......I need it verified by a higher authority...!!

Civil Procedure icon

Rules 31.16

Dear Sirs

Account number

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a true copy of the underwriting sheet or any other documents showing any commissions paid by you to the broker or by the broker to you. I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be undisclosed commissions.

Obviously if your organisation has paid, or has been paid, an undisclosed commission, I would be entitled to rescind the contract or seek other remedies.

I must stress this request is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore only a copies of the original documents in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances. I reserve the right to seek a court order for your compliance should you refuse.

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

Regards

Just a bit of tweaking to remove the CCA stuff 42Man. Still needs to be checked by a Guru though

H

**42man** · 12th June 2009 11:46

I'm on it HFA...!!

**heliosfa** · 12th June 2009 15:41

Originally Posted by 42man

I'm on it HFA...!!

oops, sorry, I meant I had already tweaked it for you

H

**jon_boy75** · 31st July 2009 13:38

hi...i would just need to change the wording for a default notice request, right?

**frettful38** · 12th October 2009 08:56

When you make a request for the Underwriting-Sheet using the CPR31.16 rule does this only apply to CCA requests under £25k or can this method be used to send to Financial Institutions (Loan Companies) secured loans over £25k?

If the loan companies i.e are unregulated can a borrower still make this request of the underwriting sheet to their loan provider?

thanks for any response or help regarding the above questions.

**42man** · 12th October 2009 09:12

You can use it, it is nothing to do with the CCA74.....

**frettful38** · 12th October 2009 09:18

Thanks 42man,

**42man** · 17th November 2009 11:48

Just adding this - Imageview Management Ltd vs Kelvin Jack - interesting case referred to me as it involves a conflict of interest icon

, fees (brokers and loan companies) and fidiciary duties....

**frettful38** · 30th December 2009 23:41

Originally Posted by 42man

You can use it, it is nothing to do with the CCA74.....

Hi 42man, another question regarding using the CPR31.16, can you use this to request your Subject access request icon

too or not?

**postggj** · 30th December 2009 23:46

The SAR

Is Under The Dpa

It Would Be The Ico For Non Compliance

**frettful38** · 31st December 2009 08:31

Thanks postggj,

**landy_alert** · 31st December 2009 16:56

Hi everyone

I was wondering if I could use CPR 31.16 in the following situation -

I have an issue where M&S Money are refusing to refund some charges which they say were incurred as a result of legal action being taken against Mr Landy. We received no court papers relating to this.

Having done a SAR icon

there were no copies of any documents relating to legal action, only a note that his account was being referred to litigation in July 2008. In November 2008 we repaid the account in full and closed it. If he had been taken to court surely there would have been notification of some kind?

Would it be possible to use CPR 31.16 to find out if any legal action was ever started against Mr L, and if so what do we need to ask for?

M&S have offered to refund some charges and it is my intention to file at court for the full amount, so would be using this as a pre-action protocol, but obviously don't want to do so until I am certain we are entitled to reclaim them all!

Landy x

**Sparkie1723** · 31st December 2009 17:08

You can make a CPR31.16 request but the other side does not have to anything about it at all .they can and do ignore it..........but once you have made it they cannot produce any more documents to use against you after the date of the request..........the thing about this CPR 31.16 is that you can ask the Court to make an order for specific disclosure......that is to say if you want a specific document .you can force it to be produced under this CPR Order, the problem under this CPR is that it is a very tight CPR............. you must give exact and precise instructions about what you want and why you want it it ...Courts are not too forthcoming in making such an order that is why you must be precise and to the Book ..............believe me I've used it once before...and it is a tight one. .............Cost me £85 for the application for the order to be made.
sparkie

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