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This may be my ignorance to the topic but can anyone shed any light on whether it's worth challenging this ticket?
I believed this bay was an all-day bay because of no sign for that particular bay, yet I've received a ticket because a single yellow line runs through it.
Also my car is purple not grey as indicated by the pcn, not sure how that affects things:
IMO, no signage relating to the bay, then no valid pcn.
The limited waiting sign that you have photographed related to another bay (without a SYL running through it). That bay limits parking for a maximum of 2 hours (with no return for 2 hours between set hours Monday - Saturday; at other times the bay is unrestricted parking.
You bay has a SYL running through it that means that it has restrictions bot outside the hours of those restrictions, the SYL restriction applies - which is shown on the sign adjacent to the SYL.
I zsuspect that the sign went missing when the building work started and the hoarding went up. But, in short, unenforceable as you cannot be aware of the bay restrictions. The SYL cannot stand alone (an 01 contravention) becasue of the existence of the bay.
I am also at a loss as to why the PCN has a P&D expiry time for an 01 code
I have to disagree the bay has no sign and therefore ttechnically the yellow line is in force. However if there was meant to be a sign there its possible the alledged '01' restriction at the time of the pcn does not tally with the traffic order.
The T bar would also restrict the ability of the timeplate to cover the bay since technically the T bar is the end of the restriction.
Nobody notice that the car isn't IN the bay? The whell's are, certainly, but if the car overhangd or is otherwise outside the relevant marked area, then it is treated as being covered by the SLY and the regulations that apply.
Nobody notice that the car isn't IN the bay? The whell's are, certainly, but if the car overhangd or is otherwise outside the relevant marked area, then it is treated as being covered by the SLY and the regulations that apply.
Yes I noticed that too and was about to post that this code be what the ticket was issued for.
Having said that, all the other comment s on challenging it seem reasonable and if all elese fails I think it would be worth pursuing a de minimus defence anyway.
If this pcn was issued on the basis of the front of the vehicle overhanging the bay it is petty in the extreme.
regards
Absolutely. However, we're trying to define the reason for issue and when you think about it, there's nothing that says ticketing a transgression must be 'blatant'. The rules do stipulate that vehicles must be 'within a marked bay'. There are many stories of overhanging vehicles being ticketed for NOT displaying a ticket (for the additional bay it is encroaching) or even being 'sizeist' that the parked vehicle is an inappropriate size (say, a minibus) despite displaying a valid ticket.
It's become a habit of mine to get my wheels as close to the T bar / line as possible because of 2 reasons:
1). It gives more room for cars behind me to park safely (ie. without scraping my bumpers), parking in the Jewelry Quarter of Birmingham has become notorious.
2). I was told that by a traffic warden about 2 years ago in the same area that 3/4's of the vehicles size must be within a bay to count, the overhang isn't more than 1/4 of the length of the vehicle.
Two things the enforcement officer told me yesterday when I collared her about the ticket:
1. Single yellow lines passing through a bay superceed whatever signs a bay may have, so if there's a sign saying "No stopping 8am-6pm" going through a marked bay then you can only park within that bay outside of those hours.
2. Because my car was effectively parked in a restricted zone on a single yellow line, she said she has by law to inform the vehicle removals team to lift the car away.
Point 1 is confusing, I was under the impression that we could park on single yellow lines outside of the prescribed hours? (ie. after 6pm in this case). If this is so, why box it off and make it seem like a parking bay when you can park anywhere on the SYL outside of the hours?
Looks clear to me. You have parked on a yellow line. Although there is some sort of bay painted on the ground, there is no signage regarding that bit of road other than the no-waiting sign. Nothing suggests you can actually park there! I suspect that is why the car behind you has also got a ticket even though they are completely in a bay. You are both illegally parked on a yellow line.
I amk not sure what you are saying about 'out of hours'. You were observed at 11:52 - 12:00. That is within the restriction times of 9am - 6pm.
If someone has made a genuine attempt to park in a bay the correct contravention would be '24 not parked with the bay markings'.
Experience has shown that this is irrelevant. There is only space for one nominated transgression, so whether it is not parked within the bay - which I agree is most appropriate, the other (equally valid) options give them a bit of variety. As long as the 'reasonable cause' part is valid, any appropriate offence code will do.
Experience has shown that this is irrelevant. There is only space for one nominated transgression, so whether it is not parked within the bay - which I agree is most appropriate, the other (equally valid) options give them a bit of variety. As long as the 'reasonable cause' part is valid, any appropriate offence code will do.
Not sure what point you are trying to make but since differential parking was introduced Councils cannot just pick the most expensive contravention if a car is in a bay and legally entitled to be there ie has a ticket or permit but is over the bay onto a yellow line then the contravention is 'parked out of bay' charged at the lower rate and not 'parked in a restricted street' at the higher rate.
In this case however it seems the CEO considers the SYL covers the bay, which it does. However as I mentioned before the timeplate cannot cover the bay due to the T bars so unless its in a CPZ there is no timeplate and no contravention and it is unlikely the TRO would cover the bay as its obviously meant to have some other purpose and a plate is probably missing.
PCN issues, signs confusing (large images!)
, not sure how that affects things:
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Originally Posted by buzby
