Lloyds TSB - Have they set a precedent? **WON**

**andie_303** · 21st April 2009 10:04

Trying to keep this as short as possible.

I am trying to claim back my LPI (their version of PPI icon

) on a loan with Lloyds icon

as I have a pre-existing medical condition that means I cannot claim.

So I have my claim in (6 weeks and counting...) and at the same time ask to cancel future payments I'm told this is not a problem but to do this I would have to refinace the loan.

Now I have read my paperwork back to front and there is no reference anywhere that you have to refinance to cancel LPI.

They are also quoting my £95 a month without LPI yet my agreement says the cash loan only (without LPI) is £85 a month.

I question this and they say basically with the LPI refunded it calculates to £95 and it would have only been £85 if I cancelled within 30 days.

Again read the condtions back to front and no where does it say this. In fact the condition that I think goes in my favour says

1.4 The LPI loan is paid directly to the insurer. Should you decide to cancel the LPI we will cancel payment to the insurer and the payment will continue with the cash loan only.

My cash loan clear as day says £85 a month - no mention of this only applying for 30 days.

Lloyds have refused this and said I should have known that it was 30 days and they have even said they have not managed to find a copy of my agreement so cannot verify the t&c's that I actually signed.
I have a copy and have sent it to them but guess they can't read

Anyway I know of a person that had an almost identical issue and they cancelled the LPI, refunded premiums and interest icon

and continued the loan on the amount stated on the initial agreement without the need to refinance.

Now is there anything about setting a precedent that can be applied here - they have done it once so surely all customers should be treated fairly??

Anyway I think it's black and white in their own paperwork - and I think it says it all that their new loan agreements no longer have the 1.4 clause.

Any help gratefully received

**citizenB** · 21st April 2009 10:26

I will ask someone with more knowledge of PPI icon

to look in on you.

I am wondering if they want to refinance the loan because a) the original paperwork is suspect or b) because they want to mess around with the interest icon

rates. Either way at this point in time I would say dont agree to it.

**42man** · 21st April 2009 11:27

This would seem to be a prime example of a missold icon

policy, and to be honest i'm not surprised that they want you to sign a new loan !!! your current one would be deemed unenforceable !!

**andie_303** · 21st April 2009 11:58

Thanks 42man - I am considering sending them a letter before action icon

highlighting the 1.4 term again and demanding refund of all premiums and interest icon

and the remainder of the loan to be set at £85 for the next 40 months - do you this is correct - I was going to give them 14 days and then file in small claims afterwards if no response.

Their letter after my telephone complaint with them was initiated was their first and FINAL response so I think I am within my right to just give them 14 days in the LBA.

Is this right??

**citizenB** · 21st April 2009 14:14

14 days is a suitable time, yes

**alanalana** · 23rd April 2009 12:51

Hello andie,

Trying to keep this as short as possible.

I am trying to claim back my LPI (their version of PPI) on a loan with Lloyds as I have a pre-existing medical condition that means I cannot claim. Do you have documentation on your Pre_existing medical condition
from the time the loan was started?

If so it would be a clear case of mis-selling.

So I have my claim in (6 weeks and counting...) and at the same time ask to cancel future payments I'm told this is not a problem but to do this I would have to refinace the loan. You can cancel without refinancing IMO.

Now I have read my paperwork back to front and there is no reference anywhere that you have to refinance to cancel LPI.

They are also quoting my £95 a month without LPI yet my agreement says the cash loan only (without LPI) is £85 a month.

I question this and they say basically with the LPI refunded it calculates to £95 and it would have only been £85 if I cancelled within 30 days. Probably because they would hike the APR on any new agreement.

Again read the condtions back to front and no where does it say this. In fact the condition that I think goes in my favour says

1.4 The LPI loan is paid directly to the insurer. Should you decide to cancel the LPI we will cancel payment to the insurer and the payment will continue with the cash loan only. Yes nice one the fos icon

would like this.

My cash loan clear as day says £85 a month - no mention of this only applying for 30 days.

Lloyds have refused this and said I should have known that it was 30 days and they have even said they have not managed to find a copy of my agreement so cannot verify the t&c's that I actually signed. So they want you to sign a new agreement. My advice, do not sign icon

a new agreement.
I have a copy and have sent it to them but guess they can't read

Anyway I know of a person that had an almost identical issue and they cancelled the LPI, refunded premiums and interest icon

and continued the loan on the amount stated on the initial agreement without the need to refinance. This also happened to me with RBS but the payments did not reduce by the PPI monthly figure. After cancelling the PPI complaining to the FOS (Pre existing medical for me too) I eventually got all the premiums I had paid for xx months including the interest and 8% statutory on top.

Now is there anything about setting a precedent that can be applied here - they have done it once so surely all customers should be treated fairly??

Anyway I think it's black and white in their own paperwork - and I think it says it all that their new loan agreements no longer have the 1.4 clause.

Any help gratefully received

1. I would not advise signing a new agreement.
2. If you have not sent a Subject access request icon

I would do so.
3. Insist the PPI is cancelled with immediate effect but try to obtain cover which includes pre existing medical conditions so you are not left in the lurch.
4. As they have given you a final fob off I would phone the FOS get a case number submit a complaint with copies of all correspondence attached.

You could include the following:

Any proof of your pre existing medical conditions if you wish. It could make the case more cut and dried.

Copies of the agreement and terms and conditions as you have copies.

After the FOS got involved with my case the bank did reduce the payments to the loan only and I got back the extra they had been keeping.

If you intend to proceed to court action you will need to be well prepared hence the need to send SAR icon

to obtain all the data they hold on you.

This should include:

A true copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement with the terms and conditions applicable to the time the loan started.
Copies of statements up to date.
Copies of any correspondence letters, emails.
Any other data in whatever format they hold paper, electronic, microfische, CD and anything else you can think of, including a tape or transcript of the telephone complaint you made.

If you can identify anything missing bang in a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office and he can instruct them to send you the information.
If you go to court without the information and they produce it last minute it could cause problems.

as citizenb points out,

I am wondering if they want to refinance the loan because a) the original paperwork is suspect or b) because they want to mess around with the interest rates. Either way at this point in time I would say dont agree to it.

you could add a c) the original paperwork is missing, lost, destroyed.

The only thing here is the length of time it will take my complaint submitted last August, money in the bank just before Christmas but I know other cases are taking much longer.

Hope this is of use

aa

**andie_303** · 23rd April 2009 13:06

Great help AA thanks.

I'm aware at the moment fos icon

is taking approx 9 months which is why I said small claims generally you can be done and dusted in 3-4 months.

I sent a letter to them on Monday basically stating the obvious - breaking it down to them like they are 5 years old - I included a copy of the terms and conditions icon

I was refering to so they can actually read it for themselves along with a letter from my neurologist stating my medical condition and a seperate sheet that I found on the NHS website explaining what the condition is in laymens terms for them (again just treating them like thay are 5) so they can see the day to day effects etc

I gave them 14 days to comply otherwise I'll take them to court.

Someone told me I could possibly go for breach of contract?? I'm not really sure what this is or if this is correct though?

Andie

**alanalana** · 23rd April 2009 13:09

Someone told me I could possibly go for breach of contract?? I'm not really sure what this is or if this is correct though?

You will need to pop this question in the legal forum with some background info.

aa

**andie_303** · 23rd April 2009 13:10

thanks I'll try that

Andie

**andie_303** · 29th April 2009 22:56

Hi

Update - received a letter from Lloyds icon

basically saying they had my letter and would endeavour to answer within 4 weeks.

As this was an lba icon

and I gave 14 days would the court frown upon my not waiting for 4 weeks?? even though I made it clear they had 14 days and have actually had my complaint counting the first letter for over 8 weeks now and they have not answered satisfactorily.

14 days is up on saturday and I think i'm going to take it to court and not fos icon

.

I have also requested a copy of my CCA (even though I have mine) as I just want to see why they are insisting on refinancing and not just taking the LPI off.

**andie_303** · 30th April 2009 10:18

This was my lba icon

for information

I am writing to you with regard to your letter dated 17th April 2009 the contents of which are noted.

I would like to take this opportunity to write to express my disappointment that I believe my complaint has not been fully investigated previously by Mr Wong and I can only conclude from your letter, with all due respect, that you have neither.

My chief complaint has been the cancelling on my LPI for which I can make no use of. With a pre-existing medical condition, of which I have proof, your insurers would not pay out on any claim and therefore I am being forced to pay for something that I cannot use. I have attached this proof for your perusal.
However, this is now compounded by the fact that your department is not taking on board a valid complaint and has not, by the letters I have received, actually looked at the terms and conditions icon

that I signed on my agreement.

Mr Wong’s letter dated 11th March 2009 said that he had not looked at my terms and conditions icon

, as he has been unable to do so. As this is the main point of my complaint I find it incredible that your department has not actually ascertained a copy of my agreement and the terms and conditions icon

attached to it.

I would at this point being your attention to term 1.4 of the agreement I signed – a copy of which has been attached for your ease as Mr Wong has not been able to read a copy of mine.
1.4 If you choose to purchase the LPI, we will pay any LPI loan directly to the insurer to cover the price of the premium. If you decide to cancel the LPI policy the LPI loan will also be cancelled. The cash loan will continue and we will collect only the monthly repayment for the cash loan.

As you can see there is no time limit of 30 days attached to this term and condition. And having read the terms and conditions fully there is no mention of this anywhere. Again I have attached full terms and conditions of my CCA for your ease of reviewing.

I have noted on your new agreement sent to me that this term is no longer present. I can only draw my own conclusions for this.

Also throughout the terms and conditions it does not say that I have to rewrite my loan in order to cancel the LPI, this is again referred to in 1.4 where it says If you decide to cancel the LPI policy the LPI loan will also be cancelled. The cash loan will continue and we will collect only the monthly repayment for the cash loan.
It does not say the cash loan will be re-written.

In showing you now the terms and conditions that I signed and accepted I’m sure you can see there has been an error on the part of Lloyds Tsb and whilst I believe this matter has not been sufficiently investigated in the past I am sure this will not be the case on this occasion.

I should now expect as you can see the clearly stated wordings that you will agree with my position and ensure that future payments are indeed £87.75 as prescribed in the copy of the key financial information sheet I have also attached.

As I have paid March and Aprils payment at the higher value of £119.24 whilst you have been investigating this matter I also expect the difference of £62.98 to be refunded. Should this matter continue past 1st May, which I sincerely hope not to be the case, I will expect a refund of £94.97 + any interest icon

I would have paid on my APR of 22.1%.

I am currently launching a challenge to the LPI amount paid previously due to the fact I have an exclusion that prevents me from being able to claim and therefore I am requesting a refund of all previous LPI payments. 13 payments, February 2008 to February 2009, at £31.49 per month totalling £377.88 + interest on my APR of 22.1%.

Therefore I am asking that this money be refunded to me within 14 days (2nd May 2009).
If I fail to hear from you before this date with a suitable response I will have no further option but to file this matter in the small claims court where you may be liable for costs and I will reserve the right to claim 8% statutory interest on the amounts above.

**andie_303** · 30th April 2009 15:53

Hi

Lloyds icon

have just rang me and said they will not meet my Saturday deadline what does everyone think?

Should I just go to small claims or should I wait until they eventually reply and probably say they aren't going to do anything??

**citizenB** · 30th April 2009 17:54

When did you originally make this complaint to ltsb icon

, andie ?.

**andie_303** · 30th April 2009 20:28

originally on the 27th February

**andie_303** · 1st May 2009 12:47

any help anyone??

**citizenB** · 1st May 2009 12:52

IMHO, they have been given sufficient time. However, only you can decide whether to stick to your deadlines or let them jerk you around.

Did they give any indication as to WHEN they would be able to comply with your request ?

**andie_303** · 1st May 2009 14:42

Yeah I think small claims is calling - if if post my POC icon

up here could people have a peek and let me know what they think?

**andie_303** · 1st May 2009 15:20

This is what I have so far - not great at this - any thoughts??

I'm stuck now can't think of anything else

-V-

Lloyds Tsb

Particulars of Claim

1. The claimant alleges the defendant has mis-sold an insurance policy as the claimant has a pre-existing medical conditional that excludes the claimant from being able to make a claim on the policy.

2. The claimant has sought a refund from Lloyds TSB and has provided the defendant with appropriate medical proof (Appendix 1). The defendant has failed to respond other than an acknowledgment of receipt of my request.

3. The claimant has also sought to cancel future premiums from Lloyds TSB.

4. Lloyds TSB have refused to cancel future premiums unless the claimant rewrites the loan.

5. The defendants rewrite is at a higher rate to that of the initial agreement and, despite providing the defendant with a claim of their terms and conditions from the consumer credit agreement the claimant signed, the defendant has refused to comply with these. (Appendix 2 & 3)

**alanalana** · 1st May 2009 20:06

andie,

as you are going down the small claims route if you wish I can move your thread to the legal section your choice.

aa

**citizenB** · 1st May 2009 20:21

I am unable to assist with anything legal, andie. Have you had a rummage round the PPI icon

forums where other CAGers have followed this route?.. checking out some of alanalana's links might be a good idea

.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...060-links.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...claimants.html

You will find loads of threads and information in the following link

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...insurance-ppi/

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