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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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Help with letter to appeal dismissal - unfair dismissal


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Hi all

 

Appreciate some urgent help, my sister was dismissed and wants to appeal. I think it is a clear case of unfair dismissal and right now really need a good letter to send to appeal the dismissal first of all.

 

She really cannot work for that company again (they are a joke) and just wants her name cleared so she hasn't been 'sacked' to future employers, and the few weeks loss of earnings.

 

She was in retail on a shop floor, not long promoted to supervisor and put forward for management. about 8 months ago she was stock taking with one other girl and the prev staff had left a nightmare job to do....during the stock take they both each wrote on the top of the notes they were taking (which are only for counting up, they are scraps that go in the bin after) one single swear word each about the state of the job left to them (my sister even put little ** so it was more polite!)

 

Turns out the figures could not be phoned that one day and they were faxed instead, faxing those comments. Upshot is, a disciplinary was called and from an spotless employment record they gave her 'level 3' notice - which was explained as the most serious and if the same behaviour happened again it could lead to dismissal. She asked about appealing and her District Manager told her there was no point, it shouldn't cause her problems unless she did them same kind of thing again. She didn't appeal. Oh, also want to point out the same manager that encouraged her not to appeal told her she was being sacked until she 'fought tooth & nail for her, she should be grateful thats all she got'!!!

 

OK, 8 months later....another employee is caught breaking one of their basic security procedures by leaving the shutter partly open whilst closing up and also staff going under it like this (they demand you raise and drop it fully every time.

 

All the staff are asked if they have done this and they all say yes, and disciplinarys begin. Thing is, there used to be 2 cashing up and closing until the compnay cut hours and staff and reduced this to 1 person....alone in that store at night cashing up. Company demands the shutter is closed fully, they were leaving it partly open. My concern is now that to lock yourself in a shop on your own at night, with no way of anyone checking on you, knowing if you are ok, if you got hurt you wouldn't be founf until morning etc - breaches your basic health & safety rights. I should add the store is in a huge shopping complex with security guards etc, not on the street!

 

Sorry for the big long story! Turns out now the 'level 3' notice given before was actually a final written warning and they have found her guilty of misconduct and dismissed her now. She is the only one to be dismissed and her own Asst Manager was only given a letter of concern and probation for the same thing!!! :mad:

 

Help!!!

Edited by Dipply75

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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A very basic (and I mean basic!), appeal letter is letter no.11 on this link:

 

http://www.lra.org.uk/microsoft_word_-_document_-_sample_lettters_discipline_and_grievance_9-2008.pdf

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Thank you so much for that, letter done and going special delivery on Monday as they say she only has 7 days to get the appeal to them from the date on the letter (14th)

 

Do you thinkshe should put lots of info on the reasons she si appealing or just keep it simple and save it for the hearing? (not want to give them time to prepare/coverup?)

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all, any input would be much appreciated!

 

Sister went for her appeal hearing, which was a sham to be honest. They ignored her questions and simply quoted what sounded like political soundbites to everything - saying lots without saying anything.

 

Outcome of the appeal was for them to uphold the dismissal, so off to the Tribunal Service we go.

 

Her appeal centres around the fact that when they reduced staff hours, some jobs auomatically became lone working - in her case this would be late at night. Policy and procedure was never updated or changed to reflect this, even though procedure still required 2 people for most jobs. No risk assesment ever done and her health & saftey a risk by continuing to follow the same old procedures.

 

Managers simply said to cope as best you can when asked, staff left to figure out how to juggle 2 jobs at once, work extra unpaid hours simply to complete essential work (ie cashing up and closing up).

 

At the appeal she asked these questions and they answered by asking how SHE could have done things, changed things...she answered that every job could only be done following procedure if she then worked extra unpaid hours every night (approx 2 per night). They answered that was the right way and she should have done this....that is why she was disciplined.

 

They still did not acknowledge the health & safety issues, simply stating 'there is always an 'element' of lone working and they do have a lone working policy' - thats it.

 

The other issue is consistency. She was dismissed, the other staff given final written warnings - all except one. The Asst Manager was only given a letter of concern on her file - not even a formal disciplinary action.

 

So! Have to submit the claim to the Tribunal today (today is the deadline), if their is any advice I would be very grateful.

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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The other issue is consistency. She was dismissed, the other staff given final written warnings - all except one. The Asst Manager was only given a letter of concern on her file - not even a formal disciplinary action.

 

 

The inconsistency argument won't fly.

 

She was already on a final written warning, so a single further 'offence' took her to dismissal. The Asst. Mgr undoubtedly had a spotless record, so didn't reach the dismissal stage as it wasn't classed as gross misconduct.

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Hi patdavies, thanks for the reply :)

 

I understand the difference in that my sister had something on her record already, her point is (which I did not explain clearly, sorry!) that all the other staff had clean records also - this was all their first disciplinary - they went straight to final writen warnings and the asst manager basically got nothing.

 

The other worrying thing is that my sister was the only one that brought up the issue of health & safety (one girl was pregnant and still working in that locked store late at night).

 

There is a culture in there of not arguing, just do as you are told. None of them would appeal as they thought they would then be first out the door if there are any more staff cuts required and they have 'argued' with them.

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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  • 2 years later...

Dipply I will be interested to hear how your sister gets on. I was dismissed 3 weeks ago (they call it gross misconduct). I had been employed by this company (retail) for 10 and a half years. Not one day off sick, going to other stores to help out when asked to do so, struggling through days when my MS and RLS (restless leg Syndrome) was affecting me. Still I never called in sick. Had a welfare meeting once because I couldn't take public transport to work, and my car had broken down, and my partner was away on business with his. The RLScould be particularly severe when I took public transport. In short, this Welfare meeting was very aggressive and was basically an interrogation ( a fact which I commented on at the time and so is recorded in the notes of the meeting). I was in tears at that meeting. So I know that because of my MS and particularly the RLS they wanted rid of me. So when I forgot to put bags of banking back in the safe one night, even though the shop was closed at the time and then securely locked, they had their chance. I have now been sacked for Gross Misconduct, after my manageress reported the bags still on top of the safe the next morning, when I had a hospital procedure scheduled and an operation 3 days after that. In short, I had a lot on my mind. So now I have an appeal meeting tomorrow and I am very nervous. I cannot go back to the job, my relationship has totally deteriorated with the manageress, and I am now signing on for Jobseekers Allowance for the first time ever. And I have 'dismissed for gross misconduct' on my employment record. Who will employ me now? And all I did was to forget something. No money lost, or stolen. It was all there the next morning. It has been understood in that shop for a long time that the manageress had a problem with me, but no one could figure out why. I have worked alongside this woman for over ten years, so for her to do that to me was incomprehensible to me, I just would have put the money back in the safe and given the person who left it out a right good lecture But both her and Head Office, for their own reasons, have jumped on this chance to get rid of me. But I have proof that they have contravened the Disabilty Act (now known as the Equality Act), as regards both my MS and RLS (the Welfare meeting ) , and I am taking my Union Rep into the Appeal meeting tomorrow. I am so nervous, and just don't know what to expect. Dipply I sincerelyhope your sister gets the result that she wants.

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Hi

 

You also need to request copies of the following from the company:

 

* Disciplinary & Grievance Policy/Procedure. (You want both not whats in a staff handbook as this will be a shortened version)

* Lone Working Policy/Procedure. (You want both not whats in a staff handbook as this will be a shortened version)

* Health & Safety Policy.

* Cashing Up Policy/Procedure

* Company Policy/Procedure on Opening & Closing.

 

Once you get these have a good read and take time to digest them and pick everything up from their own policy/procedure they should have done but didnt

(Note one thing to keep an eye out for with the Policy/Procedure they will always have a start date and a next due review date. keep a lookout at the review dates)

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Hi Helen

 

Not been on for ages but had to pop on with a quick reply for you....Stu is right, that is what my sister got them on...they didn't actually have a proper up to date lone working policy and the HSE almost had a fit when they were told how they were actually working the lone working part of the job. (I still dread to think how close to a horrible tragedy she was at times in there!)

 

My sister went through the farce of an appeal and then used a solicitor with legal aid. She was prepared to go to tribunal with the evidence but they settled early with £1500 and a good reference to be going on with, as that was her main concern for the future.

 

At the appeal be sure to ask them why the opted for gross misconduct for such an pbvious human error, that could not be taken as intentional in any way and with a clean record also...be sure this question and their full answer is recorded on the appeal notes (do not sign it until they have this there).

 

Be sure to tell them you ARE taking this further and please take your time to read what they want you to sign, do not feel you have to hurry etc, be happy everything you discussed is there clearly. And request the policies and procedures Stu007 listed at the appeal also.

 

Seriously, best of luck for tomorrow, try not to fret too much, look at it as more of a formality and just one step in process you are now in, you'll be fine :wink:

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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Thank you so much for the reply, unfortunately I didn't have time to read it before the Appeal Hearing. I have informed them that I will be taking it further, my Union Rep was there with me and he was so much help, so much that the person holding the Appeal Hearing thanked him too as he had been a great help to her too. What she meant by that I'm not sure. She didn't give me an answer at the hearing, she told me it would be a little more than a week, so not to worry if I hadn't heard anything in the meantime. I have requested a copy of the notes and my union rep also has his own notes. I am prepared for anything. I told her I wished to be reinstated, but I don't really want to go back to that place, and I'm sure they don't really want me back, because of my health problems (I have MS and Restless Leg Syndrome), but I haven't had a day off sick in ten years, and my record is problem free. I was an extremely reliable employee. But I have to take the job if they offer it as a Tribunal wouldn't even entertain the case if I have refused a job offer from them and then took it to Tribunal for Unfair Dismissal.. But hey ho!, they probably won't offer the job. It's a stressful time, I will be glad when it's over, one way or the other. Going to hand my CV in now to another store, fingers crossed they won't mind too much when they ask why I left my last job...

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