Thread: Hotdog77.......no agreement what next ?

Hi there,

My situation is the same , but I actually have a letter from HSBC Card serviced that they do not have a copy of my signed agreement, which I beleive is true. what do a do now?

Thanks

Hi,

I've had the credit card since jan 2004.

Flippin eck man! Just seen this....Very good i must say....Very GOOD!! I also must say that I've been paying payment protection on this card. Aswell as asking for my balance to me drawn to Zero can I request that the payment insurance be returned to me???

Thanks

Hi There,

Had no response to my last post on here, so I sent this to HSBC card services:

Thank you for your letter of 29th April, the contents of which have been noted.

In your response you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the 29th April 09.

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any signature means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3).

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true signed copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true signed copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to bring my balance zero.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter, which is now a formal complaint.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I'm not sure if it was the correct letter to send, but i got a response back from them lastweek with the following:

[I]refering to previous mail 29th april, we have complied with the requirements of section 78 of the consumer credit act. In particular we have supplied copies of complaint with regulation3 (2)(b) of the comsumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983.

Furthermore, there is no duty under the act obliging a creditor to provide further copies of copy agreements or notices already supplied under sections 61, 62, 63 and 64 of the act. These copies are required to be provided to the customer when the agreement was made and this was done at the time. With regards to closing the account and refunding charges, please be aware that the effect of unenforceability under CCA, and such unenforeability we aver does not apply in this case, if to prevent a lender from enforcing the credit agreement in court. It does not render the credit agreement void.

Whilst i understand this may not be the response you were hoping to receive, I trst I have now clarified the banks financial posistion on this matter.[/I]

Sorry!!! Im so busy at work I can't scan and post the letter, hence typing it all. You can see what I'm up against. HSBC mumbojumbo legal S**t, sticking to thier guns. I really would like some help on this as i do not want to give up.

Thanks
I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Thanks Johnny,

This looks good, also i've been paying payment protection on the account. Shalli claim this after or just send the letter anyway requesting a refund of all PPI paid to date, and cancel it at the same time?

REgards

Brilliant!

Hi Johnny,

I'm thinking of sending the letter below, what do you think?


FORMAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION
CPR part 31.16

Dear Sirs

Account number

On XXXXX i wrote to your organisation requesting that you supply me a copy of the agreement for my account. My request extended to the full agreement which bore my signature.

I enclose a copy of the letter which was sent should for your information.

I note that to date i have not received a reply from your organisation nor have i received a copy of the agreement which i requested. in view of the circumstances i do not feel it unreasonable to ask for this document to be disclosed, it is not commercially sensitive nor is it a restricted document and should be easily accessible for an organisation such as yours. therefore i would ask that you provide me with a copy of the contract which bears my signature, i require the complete document with all its parts .

the reasons why i require this information are clearly set out within my original letter dated XXXXX , but for clarity i require this document for the following reasons

1.I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed

2. Because i believe that the Payment protection insurance was not correctly incorporated within the agreement

3.because i believe that there was a commission paid in repect of this agreement which has not been disclosed to me and therefore is a breach of agency law

4. ..................

since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings and gioven that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, i must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)(C)&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me.

The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim i may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation. Therefore i again ask that you provide me with the documents which i have previously requested . I don't not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request i will be left no option but to make an application to XXXX county court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which i have requested.

additionally i will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary

Please confirm by no later than 4pm on XXXXXXX that you will comply with my request or if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing

Regards

XXXXXXXXXX


xxxxxxxxxxx[/COLOR][/I]

Just some honest advice please? I've thought hard before sending this letter and was thinking of returning my credit card back to HSBC (non acknowldgement of debt).


Can i do this or will i be shooting myself in the foot in some way or another?