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Hi - was issued with a speeding ticket by police using a hand held device. However noticed on reaching home that the time on the ticket is incorrect - it shows one hour before I was stopped - effectively meaning I was stopped whilst still in work.
If you were stopped, you presumably have either an FPN or a verbal NIP (ie you were told that you would be reported for the offence of exceeding the speed limit)
If the FPN, then the time matters not. An FPN is nothing more than an invitation to admit guilt and settle the matter without the cost and inconvenience of a court appearance. If you decide to contest the FPN, than it is voided and a summons issued. Even if the summons contained the wrong time (unlikely as it will only have the date) then it is correctable under the 'slip rule'. An error of time in the PC's statement will not hold sway against the fact that he stopped you and that the device collaborated his opinion that you were speeding
IMHO opinion it COULD. If the policeman made a mistake on the time, not just by a few minutes but by a whole 60 of them, perhaps he misread the speed gun too. Perthaps he thought you were doing 72, but you were actually doing 12.
The others are probably better in a position to give sound advice, but I do think there is an opening there. This is all a metter of interpretation by the PC as to what he thought the speed gun said surely. If he can't tell the time, what chance has he of reading a complicated wedge of plasticv with big numbers on?
Or is that me just being bitter and twisted. (I have my reason)
Explained above for an FPN - it is only an offer; if you wish to contest it, you must elect for a court appearance.
What matters is the PC's opinion that the vehicle is speeding. The speed gun merely provides collaboration (ie secondary evidence as opposed to primary evidence). Admittedly,, the level of speed above the limit will affect sentencing, but it is perfectly viable to argue the degree of excess speed (Newton hearing)
The very fact that the driver was stopped at the (whatever) time makes the error in the FPN time immaterial.
It is virtually impossible to get out of a speeding offence if stopped at the time. Two things are required for a conviction
1) an identified driver (from the stop or s.172 request for automated enforcement), and
2) the collaborated evidence of the offence. For a stop, this is the PC's opinion and the collaboration is either the speed gun or another PC's agreeing opinion: for a camera, it is the photographs and the collaboration is the distance travelled (across the road marking) between the two photgraphs.
There is sometimes error of judgement and in this case there clearly has been an error. Highly unlikely the Op would get off, but there IS a chance.
But at what cost would you rate that chance?
At the moment, with an FPN, this si £60 and three points.
Going to Court with a not guilty and losing will mean the addition of costs (min £35) and victim surcharge (£15) even if the Magistrates keep the fine at the same level.
Does anyone knows that what happens if you are given FPN for speeding on hand held device by PC where there are no Road Markings?
If someone goes court and loses does that lead to a Criminal Conviction? I am sure getting FPN doesnt lead to criminal conviction
Does anyone knows that what happens if you are given FPN for speeding on hand held device by PC where there are no Road Markings?
If someone goes court and loses does that lead to a Criminal Conviction? I am sure getting FPN doesnt lead to criminal conviction
If there are no road markings, then the offence stands. If there is a central dotted line on the carriageway, then the length and spacing of the lines changes above 40 mph and a case could be made that in the absence of any other signage, you were misled by the road markings; but it is nebulous to say the least and may well have to be taken on appeal to Crown Court (Magistrates are not likely to understand the fine differences)
Both an FPN and/or a Court appearance for speeding are criminal offences - by definition, the offence breaches criminal law. However, the offence is not classed as recordable, which means that it will not appear on a criminal record check (CRB) etc.
Thanks Pat Davies
If I go court to challenge my driving Speed on basis of fact that there were other cars too on the Road is that true that in the absense of any video evidence I CANT be handed over any points? There was Only 1 officer sitting in the car and the Only proof I was shown was the speed on his handheld gun which was 41mph in a 30mph zone but my point been that there were other cars too on the road.
Also do I stand a chance of going to Speed Awareness course instead? If so then how should I go about it?
Regards
Thanks Pat Davies
If I go court to challenge my driving Speed on basis of fact that there were other cars too on the Road is that true that in the absense of any video evidence I CANT be handed over any points? There was Only 1 officer sitting in the car and the Only proof I was shown was the speed on his handheld gun which was 41mph in a 30mph zone but my point been that there were other cars too on the road.
Also do I stand a chance of going to Speed Awareness course instead? If so then how should I go about it?
Regards
If you are convicted in court, you will get at least 3 points, and a fine of at least £60, plus £35 court costs, plus £15 victim surcharge. They don't need a video to convict you, the opinion of a police officer corroborated by an approved device is sufficient.
Speed awareness courses are entirely at the discretion of the police, and are usually offered to first-time offenders whose speed is between (10% + 2) and (10% + 6) of the speed limit - that would be 35 to 39 in a 30 limit. If they don't offer one, your only options are to pay the FPN or contest the case in court.
If you were entitled to choose a speed awareness course then it would be detailed, along with how to go about booking it, details of those drivers entitled to attend (and those who are not entitled - at 41mph in a 30mph limit area I doubt you will be eligible as usually it is offered to those drivers who are marginally over the 10% + 2mph over the speed limit grace limit).
If the information you have been sent doesn't include this information I would think you are not eligible to attend one of those courses.
Dunno if this is relevant -but it also opens up a doubt that the 'calibration' of the hand-held device could be flawed as, if the timer providing the date/time information is wrong, then it's no great leap of faith to suggest that the device could also be over/under reading?
I'm assuming that the 60 minutes awry was due to the arrival of BST, but it does open the door on if they were as careless not to correct the clock, that the calibration could also similary be erroneous.
be careful of the use of 'calibration' for these devices it means something quite different. Its type approved, there will be no mileage in questioning the internal clock even if it is worng !
I have no first hand experience of these devices, butr I'd like to think if you can question the accuracy of the time displayed, then the probability of other things being wrong 'block approval' or not, could be challenged successfully!
Perhaps so, but that's not the issue. If the clock is inaccurately set, then this calls into question the operation and competence of the user. therefore I'd argue confidence in any data extracted from the unit may be called into question.
So what if the timing circuits are not linked with the pulses? If the operator cannot get the time right - one of the most basic functions-what right have they to assert that 'everything else' would be OK?
Speeding Ticket
by police using a hand held device. However noticed on reaching home that the time on the ticket is incorrect - it shows one hour before I was stopped - effectively meaning I was stopped whilst still in work.
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Originally Posted by wheelergeezer
