Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2
1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28
  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder Stevie1961 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    16

    Default Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Hi, I have just taken part in a pre-hearing review in the employment tribunal, to find out if I had a week case against my employer and to possibly pay a deposit for continuing.

    The meeting lasted for 25 minuites, only the respondants solicitors spoke and gave evidence to the judge, before he stopped the procedures, saying that, as my employer had not followed steps 1 and 3 correctly, then this was possibly automatic unfair dismissalicon. He has now set a date for my hearing on the 10th of july. He pointed out that I had arguments in relation to step 1 and 3 of the statutory dismisal procedures.
    He has asked me to complete a schedule of loss, witness statement and exchange all documents.

    I'll try to summerise the events as good as I can.

    I work as an engineer visiting cutomers premisis servicing and repairing faults. I have to fill in a timesheet each week showing sites and times, which the company uses for paying me and for invoicing.

    I received a letter from the compay stating that I would have to attend a disciplinary hearing in regard to discrepancies in my timesheet, as well as a customer complaint in regard to me leaving a system in fault. It stated that this could be gross misconduct. I was offered the right to be accompanied.
    There was no other information in the letter, such as possible outcome, or evidence, although, they maintain that a copy of the discipinary procedures and a copy of my timesheet were included with the step 1 letter, which they we'nt
    I attended the office the following day, and spoke to the guy who was going to represent my employer in the meeting, he refused any more information, but gave me copies of my timesheet, saying that it pertaind to tuesday and friday.

    I attended the meeting, which was held in a glass partitioned room, which I was'nt happy with, as my colleges could see and hear us. I was asked to talk through my timesheets for the 2 days.
    Three times I confirmed they were correct, before they showed me a photograph of my van parked outside my house, when my timesheet showed that I was in work, I explained to them that I had to pop home to charge my phone, as confirmed by a secretary I spoke to earlier in the day.
    I was asked about the second day, answered all their questions, but they did not beleive that I re-attended site to repair the system i left in fault, which I can prove, Another engineer visited the site after myself and confirmed that the system was free of faults.

    At the end of the meeting, I was told that they did not want to sack me, but asked me to resign, twice I refused, then gave in and resigned. I was then driven home.

    I sent in my ET1 form for constructive dismissal, Which was rejected, as I had not sent my employer a grievence letter.

    I wrote to my employer, stating that they had not followed the 3 steps correctly, and had not investigated correctly, I received a letter back stating that the matters had been investigated, and my employer felt that they were entitled to dismiss me.

    In 23 years I have never had a blemish on my employment history ( 5 years with this company )

    Anyway, back to the hearing,

    1) The judge stated that he had no doubt that this was a dismissal.

    2) He stated that as the step 1 letter did not set out the possible outcome of the hearing, The procedures were not followed correctly.

    3) Because my employer did not offer the chance of an appeal at the disciplinary hearing, or in the response to to my greivence letter, that they failed to follow step 3 of the procedures

    My questions are,

    1) After reading so much online, I was under the impression, that I had to ask for an appeal, not the employer suggest one, Have I failed to complete the 3 step procedure ?

    2) In my schedule of loss, how do I calculate my loss of future earnings, for how long etc, as I now earn £70 per week less ?

    3) Do I give copies of my current payslips with the rest of my documents, when we exchange them, or with my schedule of loss, or take them to the court at the time of the hearing ?

    Thanks for taking the time to read my post,

    All the best,

    Steve


  2. #2
    Basic Account Holder Stevie1961 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Can anybody help please or any advice?


  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder almond Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    244

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    hi
    i had and still have a very long story to tell regarding my tribunal case filed papers last week for unpaid claim £17k and have no chance of getting it, but i did learn a lot from my case which i had a guy from cab
    helping me with, so first i would suggest you contact them and see if they can act on your behalf its FOCicon, i got a book called employment tribunals
    you will need to google it try and get one off ebayicon
    witness statement - very brief tell a story of what happened with dates and anything other i.e calls emails letters
    something like this on monday 6th april i was told to reply to stevie regarding xxx i did this at 8.47 via email please refer to attached copy

    every case is different so really advise you contact cab but feel free to pm me if i can be of any further help and good luck you will need it
    you can alway read some of my posts regarding my case


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder Stevie1961 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Sorry to hear the trouble you are having getting your money, hope you manage to sort it out. I've read your posts

    I have started to write my statement and schedule of loss, but the cab here in port talbot is only open for a few hours a week, as I work for a new employer, it is difficult to get to the office.

    I have read miles and miles of webpages for advice, and my statement is already 3 pages long, about half way through.

    I have to send all documents to their solicitors, by the end of this week, but still dont know if I have to include my pay dockets, to show my losses to date.

    Hope all goes well for you,

    Steve


  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder almond Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    244

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    hi
    keep everything to just the points not he said xxx you said xxx, i did that on mine and cab told me to take it all out, when do they have to send a copy of they statement? by the end of the week ? bit under handed but you should get it either thursday or saturday (because of good friday)
    what about taking a risk and waiting to finish yours until you are in reciept of theirs, that way you can counter attack what they have said.
    i am just thinking about what i did. read they defence in the reply to your claim and try and discredit them. i still have the book if you need anymore info i can try and find the answers, good luck and if i can be of anymore help let me know


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder Stevie1961 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Thanks for that info Almond,

    I'll have to take out the "he said" stuff as well then, I suppose it makes sense. I dont have to provide my statement untill next month, but have to disclose all documents by the end of the week. I have made some notes which I will use during the hearing, Do these have to be disclosed?.

    In your statement of loss, How do you calculate future loss of earnings, as I am paid less now.

    I cant wait until I have seen their statement as the judge ordered us to exchange them mutually, either in person or an arranged date and time. I'll meet their solicitors to make sure no funny business goes on.

    Discrediting them is the easy bit, Because, when I first joined the company,they paid us off the books, I stated in the ET1 form, the date I started and they stated the date that I officialy started.

    Basicly, the company I worked for previously, went into receivership and the new company took the engineers on to carry on with the contracts. They gave me a letter stating that they had not employed any engineers, so that we could claim from the goverment for redundancyicon. They also filled out a form from the employment tribunal stating the same. We were paid cash in hand. I also have a letter proving that I was employed by them.

    Let the fun begin.......


    Have you managed to track down your old employer?


  7. #7
    Gold Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Download our toolbar
    callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2006
    I am in
    charge
    Posts
    3,421

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Steve you base your loss of earnings on what you used to earn
    If you now earn less then you claim the difference i believe
    Have you not got legal cover on your home insuranceicon?

    I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!!

    Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you!


    I have been smoke-free for 4yrs
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder Stevie1961 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    No, unfortunatly, no legal Insurance, Ill have to consult with the CAB, but here in Port Talbot it is only a small office which always has queuse outside.

    I'm on holidayicon from work next week, so I'll try then. When the judge issued his judgement at the pre-hearing, he said " dont bother getting a solicitor, They cost money", " seek free legal advice". He pointed out that I had arguements, but they were only arguments.

    I could not find any information about having to include the possible outcome in the step1 letter, or there having to be the words appeal in step3.

    I was under the impression that I had to ask for an appeal, It was not for the employer to offer one.

    Cheers for responding callumsgran, and what a great username lol


  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder almond Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    244

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    thanks great news about seeing their statement this week, use it to do your witness statement, whatever their have entered as defence try and prove them wrong but remember to include everything and if you have a friend or partner that knows the full story give them yours and their statements to read to see if you have missed anything.
    Their can submit more paperwork after you have done your witness statement. have you thought of calling witnesses you say a few of you were given a letter? will their come forward.
    regarding mine i have been lucky that his ex landlord got a private eye
    yes their have been found or could be on the run again, i had a visit from
    customs and tax man a few weeks ago looking for him , he has used my address. You will have more luck than i've had. As i said i will try and answer all your questions but my case went on for 11 months and was over last year so i have forgot a few things


  10. #10
    Gold Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Download our toolbar
    callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2006
    I am in
    charge
    Posts
    3,421

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Thanks stevie, so called because i am callums gran (of course i was a child bride lol) bless him, he's 2 in june and a right handful i might say

    Best of luck with your tribunal hun

    I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!!

    Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you!


    I have been smoke-free for 4yrs
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder Stevie1961 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    I've found a great document that might help others, lots of info on disciplinary Procedures.

    I have a meeting with the CAB next Wednesday.

    Here is the document http://www.das.co.uk/pdf/Employment_...ermination.pdf

    Cheers,

    Steve


  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder nickymacd Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Hi

    I am new to forums, and sending this in an attemt to communicate with someone who has knowledge about employment tribunal hearings.

    I will be facing this soon alone and could use some guidance. I am unsure which box to click to start this off.

    Can you help?


  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder Jason F Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    It may be that your compensation will be reduced because you did not request an appeal or undertake the appeal process - BUT you can still argue that the duty is encumbent upon your employer to do so.

    Loss of earnings? Well, 70pw * number of weeks you are claiming for. I'd provide just one payslip (your latest one) to show that you currently earn £70 less pw than you used to. The question also falls to how long - well, I'd put in at least six months (how long do you think before you could get a pay rise, and of course contrast that with the fact that you were employed for 5 years so more likely to get a rise at your ex-employer). If there was any period in the last six months you were unemployed, then you can claim for full loss of wages (and be prepared to provide evidence of your search for work during this time i.e details of interviews etc). Then add in the £190 (or whatever the current value is) for the loss of the ERA protection. You may wish to submit a witness statement advising of your attempts to find alternative employment and the date you got employed etc (with a copy of your offer letter from your new employer).

    Basically, set out all the facts as they happened in a witness statement and then say I was hired on X date, see page .. of exhibit Y (with page .. being a copy of the offer letter which identifies your start date)..

    At the PHR were no directions handed down in respect of exchange, requests for further information etc?


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder nickymacd Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Jason,

    Thank you for your reply. I have given a short intro to my situation for your consideration.

    I have work for over 30 years, hold excellent work and character references, and was employed 5 years with this very large employer.

    Late the second year 2005 a new manager started asking me for a private word, always away from the dept. in a private room, as a result of these regular private meetings my health went down, and heart pills were needed, for the first two years no sickness absence, I did not know of my right to be accompanied. I was unused to such behaviour.

    After exhausting every other course in 2006 I placed a formal grievanceicon providing Occupation Health and GP confirmation. The 13 month investigation disregarded the medical reports and failed to uphold my Grievance.

    I immediately wrote to the complaints manager pointing out that the medical evidence I had based my complaint on had been disregarded, etc, and that it is the decision maker’s duty to ensure a fair and impartial investigation. In keeping with my employers Policies and Procedures I also appealed.

    After a lengthy appeal process the O.H., GP, and now Hospital Cardiology Reports were disallowed and my appeal was not upheld. In keeping with my employers Code of Conduct I wrote to the very highest level, and received no acknowledgement.

    In 2008 whilst medically signed of with work-related ill health my employers dismissed me for sickness absence.

    I have 50 Pieces of evidence dating from 2005 to 2008 everything in writing, also a number of
    employers policies and procedures which form part of my contract of employment that have not been adhered to. My employers written policies specifically detail the right to be accompanied, and that they are legally required to complete a Risk Assessment, they did not.

    The Appeal taker’s letter refusing to uphold my appeal included the following written statement “There is no question that you, have health problems, nor that they were exacerbated by the one to one meetings with your line manager - to challenge your behaviour – Any such meetings are naturally confrontational and in my opinion it was the confrontation that brought on your symptoms of ill-health.As your manager it was ……... duty to challenge theses behaviours and in accordance with normal management action, these meetings were quite correctly held in private

    There was no ET pre-hearing review for my dismissal; the case is going to tribunal soon. However I am representing my self I am very concerned about how best to prepare etc.

    Thank you


  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder Jason F Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Hmm, that also makes things a little more interesting. Your employer knew you had a health problem. They are then under a duty to ensure that your health is not compromised, once on reasonable notice of any issue.

    Are you saying (just to be very clear) that it was the manager who was taking you aside and that was the cause of your ill-health? What was he saying in those meetings?

    Then the appeal was completely dismissedicon regardless of the medical evidence? That is odd. And a tacit admission that they actually caused your ill-health?

    Are you also claiming for psychiatric injury? Have you a solicitor on board? Have you house insurance or car insuranceicon which may cover your claim?

    Has your employer made any offer to settle in any way?

    Do you have any good books? When I was training for Employment Law, the Tamara Lewis Book was the book of choice (Mods, hopefully that's not in breach of any rules).


  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder nickymacd Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Jason

    Of this there is no doubt not only are the thing s that you understandably doubt true I have evidence of every document 50 pieces, I also have my emp. policies and procedures both on the risk assessment that was not carried out, the reporting work related ill health doc, the grievanceicon procedure that cover fair and impartial and all evidence being considered and the appeals process.

    Employer knew about health problems the Official Grievance in 2006 was based on medical evidence OH Report confirmed and GP letter.

    It was my line manager, accusations, someone had told her, would not give names or dates-false,
    Time and time again mostly on Friday and ruined my weekend and sometime weekly, she told me that she was a kick boxer. During the months that I endured this I got a glowing report on both my work and willingness to help etc. Even when I emailed her to say that my health was going down and I was on heart pills she stepped up the pressure. Fortunately I have all written documentation.

    I brought the medical evidence to both the complaints manager and the appeal takers attention and they allowed it to be omitted. When I attended the appeal meeting I was accompanied by a first aid union rep, the meeting had to be adjourned as my heart started racing but she went ahead.

    YES -The admission came from the appeal decision maker and I have the exact words that I quoted to you in writing and evidence numbered.

    I do not know anything about psychiatric injury. I do not have a solicitor and although my union rep filled in the ET form they have stalled ever since and I am on my own.

    I am so well documented but unsure about representing myself, I am planning travelling to Edinburgh to sit in on an ET for experience.

    Thank you for the insurance info and for your reply.

    Nickymac


  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder Jason F Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Nicky,

    I don't doubt it, I just wanted to be very clear !! Because it's easy to mis-interpret written stuff - at least, for me.....

    So, you are saying that your manager was raising fallacious accusations made against you by someone (fellow employee?) but she wouldn't give you the details? This then caused you substantial upset and ruined your weekends etc..and undoubtedly also sleepless nights worrying about it. That in itself is a breach of a founding pillar of justice, and the courts don't look too highly upon it - you must be given the evidence of the claims and accusations made against you in order that you can defend yourself. Where any written documents given to you for the grievanceicon? Was it recorded/minuted in any way, and signed by you?

    You say "she" went ahead, is this your line manager? The one who was making the accusations?

    Are you saying also that she was threatening you? I.e. stating she was a kickboxer, was that to intimidate you?

    You have ET1 filed? Or just filled in? If it has been filed, when was it filed, and what was your effective date of termination? (I assume you are aware it must be filed within three months). Then, has your ex-employer responded at all? (ET3?). Have you had any hearings at all to date? I assume not from what you are saying...

    Without meaning to pry, can you (will you?) disclose a "little" more information about your health - you are saying you went on heart pills, is that blood pressure? Basically, what I am trying to get at is WHAT injury did you sustain as a result of this bullying (which is what it is as well I believe, I do hope you submitted a claim for bullying, if not, might I suggest that you ask permission to amend ET1 to account for that). If it's a psychiatric injury (stress/depression etc) it's far harder to show/prove because the courts are not so keen on it (sadly, despite the fact that it is, IMHO, far more likely to result from such actions).

    What is the state of play with respect to your union rep? If they are not responding, perhaps escalate to a more senior person?

    Obviously you wish to proceed with this claim. My question is, what do you hope to achieve? Once you have that established, then it's a matter of working out how to get it.....

    It's a good idea to go to the ET and watch how it works, that would help your nerves as well. Also, ETs are well used to litigants in person, and you are likely to find the judge assisting you (especially if your employer is represented!).

    I hope I've made sense above....


  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder nickymacd Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Janon

    Firstly I phoned my AA Insurance today and I am covered for £25,000 legal cost, I will do the paperwork and hope. And yes to all your first paragraph, iwas my line manager, she did not threaten me she talked over me and through me she saidthat she was a kick boxer, there was no sence to it and I knew not to question her.

    Frst Istarted grinding my teeth in my sleep I have a list of dental repairs as I broke two in half and they had to be recemented. my emp got copies of this which relate to emergency dental apointments.

    Then my heart would acerelate as some speed and I had to go to the doctors, I also had high blood preasure and was put on med. for both (no previous history of this, it would settle and I could come on the med. but another meeting and more medical appointment and pills. Copies of each med. prescription were given to my emp.

    I have all written documents from grienance, OH reports Gp letters and as the health went down in 2005, grievanceicon in 2006 a 14 month investigation, another year for the appeal to be over. During 2007 the hospital fitted me with a heart moniton, which showed my heart was going very fast, I had to diary the attacks and mail from my emp trigered attacks. I then attended the cardiology clinick and I am to stay o the med.

    Whilst medically signed of with work rrelated ill health I was dismissed.

    When I say she went ahead, I mean that eforts to stop the meetings by showing medical evidence to her, increased the frequence of the meetings. She thought that I would go, but although it was horific, I decide when I leave a job. Encluded in my grievance was a report on the 17 year old who left just before me. I found her crying outside the building and it was hapening to her also.

    The ET is filed and a telephone converson with an ET Judge and the respondent in January there is to be no pre-hearing it is going to tribunal.

    My x emp has not rresponded.

    Yes it was bullying and i put that on my grievance, and detailed the ill health as evidence Isustained broken teeth, high blood preasure, accelerated heart rate, then a stress related skin disorder, and I was put on sleeping pills for two weeks to break the lack of sleep patern. i cannot diescribe the mental distress.

    The union work for my emp, and are in hiding.

    i want to ensure that theey face up the the massive gap between their written policies, and their legal requirements. I doubt that anyone has stood up like this, they are 'BIG' will hate the stigma, their size is enough to make most leave quiatly..

    I am fortunate, I have excelent work history, character, and have neared retirement, they cannot take anything from me. the experience was so bad that i thought of ending it, but that would only hurt my children.

    I lost my good name, dismissal isunpleasant, but it gave my an end to my situation. It cost me three years wages, and three years pension contributions.

    I took a month off, my health improved, but i am still on med. I did some voluntry work and was invited to apply for a team leader position, I love it, it is only part time but my team are happy.

    Excuse rushing.

    Thank you again, Nicky


  19. #19
    Gold Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Download our toolbar
    callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran Highly informative callumsgran's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2006
    I am in
    charge
    Posts
    3,421

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    Nicky i do hope things turn out right for you with this
    Best of luck

    I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!!

    Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you!


    I have been smoke-free for 4yrs
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder nickymacd Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Employment tribunal advice needed please

    callumsgram

    thak you.

    Nicky



Viewing CAG on a small screen? Switch to the mobile version of the site

Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE