Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Lloyds TSB are not notoriously slow, Lloyds TSB ARE!! the most notoriously difficult, obnoxious, could not care about customer problems/relations, we can and will do anything we like, cos we are LLOYDS TSB BANK. (Oops did I go off on one)
Yes they invented the word procrasternate. I am myself in the same position as yourself, awaiting the mighty Lloyds Tsb to come up with their pitiful attempts to attempt to justify the non production of a legally requested agreement. (IMHO)
I am in same boat sent both CPR letters and both times are up So time to get N244 and paperwork ready.. TSB had previously replied that they have complied with cca which they had as we now know but only sent an application an d some dodgey t & C's marked' bank copy' then a letter saying they would not enter into any more correspondence with me and they havent not replied to cpr letters i just gt statements saying the account is over due .. my thread is CCa 1974 and credit cards
I received today what is typically the HBOS response to CCA requests.
I got the following documents:
-covering letter
-copy of my last credit card statement
-a newly printed credit card agreement
-copy or my original Lloyds application form and what looks like the terms and conditions at the time (both attached below)
-the original application form that is signed by myself and Lloyds does not contain the required prescribed terms
-the T & Cs above look like they have come off a microfiche in the exact format they were scanned on....you can see that 2 pieces of paper have been stuck on so probably a 3rd of the T & Cs are completed covered up....so I think these may have bene the t & cs from the time...other wise they would have just done a Halifix special and photocopied a new t & c page to the back of the application
-there is no reference on either document linking the 2 documents together
-if both documents came off the microfiche it is unlikley that Lloyds hold the original docs
-some of the text is not legible for exmple part of the interest rate section I cannot read the % rate etc
A key point for me is there is nothing linking the 2 documents together and so even if some of the prescribed terms are held within the t & cs how can the bank prove they are linked.
Another key factor is that you cannot see a third of the information within the t & cs so how can i or anybody review the agrement to check that it is 100% enforceable ?
I was about to issue the N244 under the CPR process and then the above docs arrived.
You can see if you tilt your head that a third of the document is covered up by 2 bits of paper before they microfished it.
So when looking for prescribed terms you can see section 6 states "credit limit minimum of £250 and then section 8 has the box giving interest rate & charges for credit limits of £250+. But from £1000+ the info is covered up.
The lawyer I took advice from stated the following.
It was their view that if it went to Court, Lloyds could bring an old identicle agreement from the time to show the judge what would have been showing in my original agreement. So even though my T & Cs are not legible, if Lloyds could produce an identicle copy of what would have been shown in my original agreement ...this would suffice and my illegible copy would be deemed enforceable?
Indeed imo there is a risk that if you are claiming the document is illegible and they produce a legible agreement the judge will possibly agree subject to the judge lottery again, some require absolutely the original, some will accept the back of a fag packet(exaggeration).
But this still requires the document to be clearly linked (front/back) with the prescribed terms showing and bearing yours and there signature.
If the agreement you have fits all these but is just illegible then it is a risk.
IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.
Indeed imo there is a risk that if you are claiming the document is illegible and they produce a legible agreement the judge will possibly agree subject to the judge lottery again, some require absolutely the original, some will accept the back of a fag packet(exaggeration).
But this still requires the document to be clearly linked (front/back) with the prescribed terms showing and bearing yours and there signature.
If the agreement you have fits all these but is just illegible then it is a risk.
S.
Thanks Shadow
The front page is an application form that bears my and the bank managers original signature both signed on the same day. http://i42.tinypic.com/fnae6q.jpg
-documents are not clearly linked as front & back
-t & c's contain the prescribed terms - albeit alot of info is covered up due to bad photocopying
I guess it is down to me to argue that I wasnt given the t & cs and merely signed the aplication form. And it is down to Lloyds to prove I was give the t & cs ?
-documents are not clearly linked as front & back
-t & c's contain the prescribed terms - albeit alot of info is covered up due to bad photocopying
I guess it is down to me to argue that I wasnt given the t & cs and merely signed the aplication form. And it is down to Lloyds to prove I was give the t & cs ?
F
They have to show that the prescribed terms are clearly linked to the signed document, i.e. page x of x or as you say the back of the application.
IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.
I lost yesterday on exactly that point, and I will say that the Judge examined, in great detail, the enhanced copy of the application form and the produced old identical brochure with the app form with the conditions on the back!
I am thinking about starting the process of asking lloydstsb for my credit card agreement but do not know what to do. I have heard that there are letters and time scales to follow, can anyone point me in the direction of these letters and advise on the timescales.
If these timescales are not adhered to is it best that I continue to pay until the timescales have ran out, does it help their case if I continue to pay or it does not make a difference?
How difficult is it to prove that my card may be unenforceable?
Finally has anyone had any success against Lloydstsb?
Lloyds CCA
with the 2 section 78 letters and recently fired off my first CPR letter.
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(Oops did I go off on one) 
Originally Posted by the_shadow
