CCJ and interest on debt. ***WON CCJ Set Aside plus Costs***

**Spamalot** · 31st March 2009 17:13

Can any one advise me please!
My financial difficulties forced me to make payment arrangements with several credit card companys a couple of years ago and all but one were very reasonable.
The account I had with Marbles/HFC made it very difficult for me but they eventually agreed an arrangement to reduce payments and freeze interest icon

. After a short while they passed the debt on and to cut a long story short it is now owned by Marlin Financial/Mortimer Clarke.
Despite keeping up the payments they informed me they were applying for a charging order on my property and last month I received a CCJ for the amount owing, plus charges and an acceptance of my payment offer.
The small print at the bottom of the CCJ states that if judgement is for £5000 or more (which unfortunately it is) or is in respect of a debt that attracts contractural or statuary interest for late payment the claimant may be entitled to further interest.
Having contacted Mortimer Clarke by phone they have stated that they intend to charge me 8% interest.
There is no mention of interest being awarded on my judgement, it just states the total amount owed and the amount of instalments.
I have not received any statements on this account for well over a year and despite my contacting them by phone, letter and email they either ignore my requests or tell me they haven't got the information at the moment.
I tried contacting the court where the CCJ was issued but they couldn't help me either!

Does anybody know if this means that I only have to pay interest if my payments are late or whether I have to pay interest on the full total owing each month. And should I be liable for interest if I haven't received anything in writing?

I am getting so confused and trying to get to the bottom of this fiasco is like banging my head against a brick wall They can't even tell me exactly how much I owe!!!.

Somebody help....Please

**hammyhound** · 31st March 2009 19:25

I am no expert but I found this NDL website which highlights interest icon

.

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 18 Interest Charges On A Consumer Credit Judgment

Do you have the original default notice or CCA. The CCA should stipulate post-judgment interest.

HH

**Spamalot** · 31st March 2009 21:28

Dear HH Thank you for your reply..
I have checked out the link and it is very informative....
With regards to defaults etc this is what I have.

1)8.1.07 Letter from HFC stating they will send default letter

2) 12.3.07 Letter from HFC stating they were reviewing my account but weren't happy with me using debt management icon

company.

3) 22.6.07 Default notice

4) 14.3.08 Another default notice.

5) 24.6.08 Letter from Marlin stating Notice of assignment from HFC to Phoenix Recoveries

6) 28.8.09 Letter from Marlin to contact them immediately to arrange payments.

7) 24.10.08 Letter stating been in touch with land registry and intend to apply for Charging order on my property.

8) Letter from Mortimer Clarke Solicitors asking for full payment or they will issue a claim where I will be liable for a court fee and interest icon

may also accrue.

9) 1.12.2008 N245 received...sent to debt management icon

company who filled in details then returned it to me for signing...this returned to Mortimer Clarke.

10) CCJ Received.

Throughout the whole 2 years I have made regular payments and not defaulted on the arrangements made via my debt management company.

This is all the information I have.

**Spamalot** · 1st April 2009 07:18

Having read the link from HH and the post on assignments it seems I could have something to fight here.
As the CCJ has already been issued and I admitted the debt, is it too late?
I admitted that I owe the money but my contract was with Marbles/HFC and although I was informed that my debt was being assigned to Phoenix recoveries I did not get a copy of the assignment...is ignorance an excuse to ask for a second chance of a fight to clear my name?
Any help and advice would be great as I do feel I've been kneecapped by Marlin with all their threats and If possible I'd love to do something about it and stand up for myself.

**Spamalot** · 1st April 2009 12:55

So, I'm applying for copy of CCA and deed of assignment to see if I can sort out the interest icon

they believe they are entitled to but who do I send it to????
Original debt was to HFC/Marbles
Assigned to Phoenix Recoveries Luxembourg.
Administered by Marlin Financial Services,
Payments on CCJ to Mortimer Clarke Solicitors......

Where the cripes do I send my letter??????

**Last of the Mohicans** · 1st April 2009 21:40

Originally Posted by Spamalot

So, I'm applying for copy of CCA and deed of assignment to see if I can sort out the interest icon

they believe they are entitled to but who do I send it to????
Original debt was to HFC/Marbles
Assigned to Phoenix Recoveries Luxembourg.
Administered by Marlin Financial Services,
Payments on CCJ to Mortimer Clarke Solicitors......

Where the cripes do I send my letter??????

Not an expert, so big pinch of salt: The CCJ will have stated an account, and that account is the relevant account for all purposes, ie, it cant be that an account opened in 1999 becomes treated as an account opened in 2008 for interest purposes. However, I'd send a letter to everyone and see what you get back.

On this next bit DEFINATELY GET OTHER ADVICE, its just a vague idea for a strategy:
One way *might* be to get the amount owed down to under £5K and then antagonise them into going after an interim charging order on the back of the CCJ, which may allow you the opportunity to contest the validity of the agreement and the usual fall-downs in the (cheaper) SCC?
You're obviously not going to be able to walk backwards on owing the debt, but if you can make their pants fall down on the documentation, who knows? the beak might even throw it out?

**foolishgirl** · 1st April 2009 22:13

Originally Posted by Spamalot

The small print at the bottom of the CCJ states that if judgement is for £5000 or more (which unfortunately it is) or is in respect of a debt that attracts contractural or statuary interest icon

for late payment the claimant may be entitled to further interest.
Having contacted Mortimer Clarke by phone they have stated that they intend to charge me 8% interest.
There is no mention of interest being awarded on my judgement, it just states the total amount owed and the amount of instalments.

If this was a regulated credit card agreement, interest cannot be charged according to S69 County Courts Act 1984 which I think is what MC are trying to do - tell them to get knotted.
It's set out in S2 (3) (a) of the following link
The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 (No. 1184 (L. 12)) - Statute Law Database

Suspect the small print is a 'standard' clause & would apply to agreements where there is provision in the agreement for contractural interest to be charged beyond judgment. If it's not stated in your agreement & judgment, it doesn't apply.

You pay the number of instalments & the sums stated to the person/company named on the CCJ - no one else! It's a court order & both you & MC have to abide by it. If they want a variation for any reason, they have to apply to the court again.

**Spamalot** · 2nd April 2009 08:48

Thanks to hammyhound, mo and foolishgirl for advice so far. Without your help I probably would have accepted what MC said and ended up paying more than they were entitled to without questioning it...which is what I suspect they were hoping for!

I may have misled in my original thread about charging order as that is what they were going for but as far as I know and understand they didn't get . The judgement as far as I can see is just to pay them back the amount owed in in the agreed instalments. (which is what I was doing in the first place so all this business has done is added court costs to my debt and a ccj to my name.

. And as far as I can see they can only apply for a charging order on my property if I default on my agreed payments.

Anyhoo, I have sent a request for the cca and deed of assignment to MC and I'm hoping they will either adhere to the request or at least tell me who to go to if it's not them.....trying to save myself a few bob on postal orders and postage here.

Now I need more advice....as the statement that MC were going to be charging interest icon

at 8% was verbal and over the telephone should I wait to see if they try this after I've finished paying off the amount owed as stated in the ccj (in about 4 years time)or should I try and get it in writing and then dispute it??
Anyone help with this one.
Once again thanks again for help so far...the links and advice have given me hope..

**Last of the Mohicans** · 2nd April 2009 09:04

Originally Posted by Spamalot

all this business has done is added court costs to my debt and a ccj to my name.

. And as far as I can see they can only apply for a charging order on my property if I default on my agreed payments.

Sort of - but as we know, making you "default" can take many forms, and who knows what lies around the corner?

Originally Posted by Spamalot

Anyhoo, I have sent a request for the cca and deed of assignment to MC and I'm hoping they will either adhere to the request or at least tell me who to go to if it's not them.....trying to save myself a few bob on postal orders and postage here.

Now I need more advice....as the statement that MC were going to be charging interest icon

at 8% was verbal and over the telephone should I wait to see if they try this after I've finished paying off the amount owed as stated in the ccj (in about 4 years time)or should I try and get it in writing and then dispute it??
Anyone help with this one.
Once again thanks again for help so far...the links and advice have given me hope..

One thing I *think* you need to be aware of (read: this needs confirming) is that where you admitted the debt, the CCJ will have *irreversably* replaced the original agreement. The reason I point this out is that if you had contested the debt, and at that point no docs had been enforceable, you would have been unlikely / unlucky to have been stuck with the CCJ. Now you have, coupled with your admittance, you'll (IMHO) find it VERY uphill getting the CCJ set aside icon

. taken together, the CCJ and your admittance also *I think* stops you declaring the account in default?

Thats not to say that if they cant supply docs, or what they supply is a pile of unenforceable tut you shouldnt try, because its very probably worth it from the point of view of, for instance, being able to write to them and say "You've supplied tut, I'm concidering taking this through the courts again" (which you can effectively do by defaulting I guess) and them making them an offer in Full and final icon

based on your knowledge.

The above is my take on your sitch, but bear in mind I'm as green as the grass so take better advice before acting!

Anyway, in knowledge lies wisdom and all that. Get whatever info you can from everywhere, then post back in.

**foolishgirl** · 2nd April 2009 09:09

Originally Posted by Spamalot

. And as far as I can see they can only apply for a charging order on my property if I default on my agreed payments.

As long as your payments are made in accordance with the CCJ on time, you shouldn't have any problem. The usual route in any case for a default would be a Warrant of Execution in the first instance (baliffs) which would give you time to pay up even if it added a charge to your account. A CO should only be used in a case of last resort & if you get a notice of one, you should apply to have it dismissed icon

& let OFT know - they are currently very interested in COs being used inappropriately.

Anyhoo, I have sent a request for the cca and deed of assignment to MC and I'm hoping they will either adhere to the request or at least tell me who to go to if it's not them.....trying to save myself a few bob on postal orders and postage here.

If you sent for a SAR icon

(£10.00) specifically requesting copies of the above, it might be more economic as you would also get statements too to enable you to reclaim any unlawful charges the OC may have added to your account if you haven't already applied. don't sign icon

the request, print or use digital sig, use PO & mail Rec. Del. (if you send to the OC it may be quicker, MC are only sols & will just pass on)

Now I need more advice....as the statement that MC were going to be charging interest icon

at 8% was verbal and over the telephone should I wait to see if they try this after I've finished paying off the amount owed as stated in the ccj (in about 4 years time)or should I try and get it in writing and then dispute it??

Suggest you keep stum & make your payments regularly. Keep a note of when & sums paid & all bank statements etc. to back it up if needed in 4 years time. Ask MC (or whoever you were ordered to pay on the CCJ) for a statement of payments etc. every 12 months & dispute any interest/charges they may have added. They have to send it to you.

BTW if the debt has not been absolutely assigned to claimant, there may be a case for applying for a set aside icon

as they had no legal entitlement to take you to court (ie. they didn't own the debt they were claiming) but it would depend on what was on your POC etc. Just a thought...

FG

**Last of the Mohicans** · 2nd April 2009 09:21

Originally Posted by foolishgirl

BTW if the debt has not been absolutely assigned to claimant, there may be a case for applying for a set aside icon

as they had no legal entitlement to take you to court (ie. they didn't own the debt they were claiming) but it would depend on what was on your POC icon

etc. Just a thought...

FG

Just agreeing with FG on this after my comments re difficulty of getting it set aside.

**r&b** · 2nd April 2009 09:31

think SAR

is a good idea ,link to reg addresses attached ,to see if u have any grounds to set aside icon

the ccj?
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...s-banks-j.html
Im not sure its so easy when the debt mgmt co have filled it in first as I ve seen threads by Von Greenbach where this has caused probs but maybe worth lookin at.The thread looks like a similar situation to yours, might give u a few ideas..
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-charging.html
Im tryin to set aside 2 ccj s at the mom link here (they pretty much the same) if u wanna see what i ve dun so far, to prepare for any future action:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...greements.html

**Spamalot** · 2nd April 2009 11:11

I'm so green and ignorant I shouldn't be allowed out of the house!!

Ok ,FG, what is a POC icon

? I'm assuming OC is original creditor and therefore I should send my SAR icon

to HFC? What, exactly, should I request that will give me as much information as I need to see if I have a case to set aside icon

and or settle the 'adding of interest icon

' question?
Also, I have not had any 'statements' of my account stating payments, interest balance etc. since HFC sold the debt to Phoenix. Where would I go to get that info? Having let my DMC manage my affairs I just blindly paid every month and discovered I 'owed' more than I thought I did when the N245 came through the post. Yes I know...in hindsight, and with the info I have now I should have disputed it then but like I said I'm a cabbage.

All help and advice gratefully received.

**r&b** · 2nd April 2009 11:35

spam thats why I have 3 ccj s 2 with charging orders. I wasnt in a place to sort it out, you do get to that place. Im on that path n so are u now.dont beat urself up just get the job done as best u can.
1. POC icon

- Particulars Of Claim example on this form here (lower left):
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...SODRAFTPOC.jpg
2. if HFC are the OC (Original Creditors) then yes send it (SAR icon

) to them at the reg address on the previous link.
3. SAR icon

template here:
http://www.consumerforums.com/resour...ebt-a-dca.html
4.I have SARd the DCA icon

as well for some of mine and received all they had on me its another £10 fee tho.
oh one point on all this ..dont sign icon

anything at all, just print and use postal orders if u can not sure if anyone has mentioned that.
hope that helps til the experts arrive

**foolishgirl** · 2nd April 2009 11:48

Good advice from r&b - you are also entitled to a free statement from your dmp icon

& any DCA (debt collection icon

agency eg. Phoenix). The dmp icon

if they are any good should be able to obtain the info for you from the DCA - they are there to manage your account. Just ask, they have to send it to you. Would suggest you write though rather than phone & use Rec. Del so you can track the request.

**Spamalot** · 3rd April 2009 12:40

Just to add...Wrote to MC over 2 weeks ago requesting FULL Breakdown icon

of payments received, interest icon

and charges accrued since they wrote to me in November informing me of their intention to secure a charging order and also a current balance. Reason being, having kept up my payments I was suspicious that by the time the judgement was granted it was for more than they were due. (This was prior to me finding this site so guess what....I signed the letter!!!!)
The upshot is they actually replied yesterday giving me a list of what I'd paid and nothing else!!!!!!!!!

So I still really don't have a true position of my debt.
Will sort out sars at the weekend.

Thanks again for allyour advice guys...R&B,FG.

**Spamalot** · 3rd April 2009 14:42

Just checked my Experian report and I found it a bit confusing.
says....HFC Default balance £9966....current £8613....
Marlin Default £9966.....current £8384.
Same debt different balances....appreciate the difference may be where I have been making payments to Marlin since the debt was assigned BUT
Why is the same debt on there twice and why does it say I've defaulted to Marlin when I've never received a default notice from them?
Report looks like I've got two different debts defaulted on when it's the same one!!!
Expert help here please

**r&b** · 3rd April 2009 18:15

hi spam, ive signed stuff before I knew better and it doesnt seem to have been used in a spurious fashion just yet, so dont worry too much. I m no expert but I wouldnt be worrying too much about the credit report, best to concentrate and get the facts straight so u can decide on the next course of action. the credit report can be sorted out at a later date if u get this set aside icon

so focus on that would be my plan.

**foolishgirl** · 3rd April 2009 19:36

The default shouldn't have been placed on your Experian file twice but in order to recify it you would ahve to write to Marlin & tell them to remove the one they have put on recently & transfer the one in the name of HFC to that of Marlin instead. They may or may not do it on first request - you might have to threaten them with reports to the OFT etc.

But as r&b implies, I wouldn't see it as a priority. It won't make a lot of difference to your credit rating at the moment whilst you still have the CCJ there & by the time the CCJ drops off (unless you manage to get it set aside icon

) in 6 years icon

time, so will the defaults.

**Spamalot** · 4th April 2009 12:01

I have hunted high and low and I don't seem to have a copy of the POC icon

. Where would I get this from? I remember ( I THINK?) it being attached to the N245 but I think it went back to MC with my admittance...not sure...I was in a bit of a fog at the time working nights to earn extra dosh to pay debts ,Christmas coming, rowing kids etc.etc
How would I go about getting a copy of this?
Would I have to request it from the court or add it to my SAR icon

to Phoenix/Marlin?
My intention is to SAR icon

HFC, (the OC) and Phoenix (They are named as Claimants on CCJ but as the account is being administered by Marlin should I send the paperwork to them?)
I'm a tad confused

More advice please from you fantastic people out there.....

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