Thread: TFC and bills of sale

After reading lots of info about bills of sale and car repossessions I have to ask for some advice.

We have a car funded by TFC (funding corporation) bought from ACF in Bristol, with high interest rates and all the rest, which due to circumsatnces we have fallen behind with our payments. TFC have sent us a default notice and instructed a enforcement office to come and collect the car this Sunday.

We have Checked our bill of sale against our credit agreementand found that they do not tally. The credit agreement has a much higher interest rate and payment due each month, compared to the bill of sale. The bill of Sale is also not signed by a witness. It has the address of ACF in Bristol on but no signature, name or description.

Does this mean that the bill of sale is void and the car not be repossessed?
Is the price we owe on the car from the credit agreement or the bill of sale?

Thanks for any help/advice

bump, any advice please.

Hi Miss Ripped Off,

Are you sure????

Your saying you have a copy of a Bill of Sale that is not signed?

Not signed by TCF or Yourself... or no signatures whatsoever?

From reading posts within the forum you may be already aware that; one of the criteria for the validity of a Bill of Sale or any Agreement to be properly executed is that it needs to be 'signed' by both parties.......

If No Signatures on Bill Of Sale .... and you can definately prove this to be so..... then it basically does not exist, and can be put in front of a Judge to confirm the position.

Check to see if the CCA makes reference to the Bill of Sale - if it doesn't then it it clear that the Bill of Sale was not party to the Agreement at all in the first place.

As sunday is only a few days away; perhaps you would consider getting an exparte injunction - this involves completing the necessary claim forms and taking it along to court with with relevant fee, asap (before Sunday)

or

Go to court to make an application for a 'time order' - which is where your plea to the Judge will be to ask for extra time to repay the loan.


Before you dash off to court - I would suggest a 'courtesy' call to TFC to ask them if they are aware that the Bill of Sale is unsigned - as they may not be aware - it maybe once you make them aware; they will immediatley realise that they have no security on your car and withdraw enforcement action.

If the Company despite your call to them are adamant that they are right and intend to contine with enforcement - you will need to weigh up the pros and cons because your case and circumstances and where you are up to with your payments will be personal to you.

Likewise if you remain undecided as to what to do, and the company are not being helpful - or money is too tight to take the matter to court right now - you may need to consider putting your vehicle into 'rehab' and catching the bus for a while until the 'dispute' is accepted by TFC and resolved.

The CCA would still stand in it's own right though - I attach a copy of the OFT guidelines on debt collection - please spare some time to read it; it will help you get a clearer perspective on your rights whilst in default.

Funding Co Again

For A Bill Of Sale To Be Legit, It Needs To Be Registered In The High Court And Have The High Court Seal On It,
It Has To Be Signed And Witnessed

As A Rule The Bill Of Sale AGREEMENT Must Tall On Twelve Points.

When Did You Take Out The Agreement

Also, Knowing This Lot, The Default Notice Will Be Crap,
Can You Post It On Your Thread Minus Personel Details
Google Photo Bucket And Upload Without Thumbnails

I WOULD TAKE THE REPO ON SUNDAY WITH A PINCH OF SALT BUT PUT THE CAR IN A SAFE PLACE JUST TO BE SURE

Why must a Bill of Sale fail on as many as 12 points - can you explain?

The Act does not state as many points as that - so why do you say 12 points?

Hi thanks for the advice
I know the car will be repo'd as I had an enforcement officer turn up at my house on Wednesday evening. Luckily my hubby was away on business and the car was with him.

As for the bill of sale it is signed by me and my husband but not by a witness.

I will try call TFC now and see what they say - I don't hold out much hope though.

Please let us know how you get on.

I hope it goes well for you - I have posted some info regarding debt collection agencies on another post.

What is the name of the 'enforcement' Company or 'man'?

Good news - spoke to a "normal" person at TFC who has agreed a payment plan, which no one else would do, they wanted 2 months payment for the overdue account, plus a month in advance, plus charges/costs.

I told them I had contacted trading standards due to the incorrect bill of sale - this worried the guy he said there was no need to go down that route!

TFC have contacted the enforcemnt guy - ROy Morgan from trojan to stop him from collecting the car on Sunday.

We are still going to go ahead with requesting a copy of the registered bill of sale from the courts -which i don't think they will have and hopefully we will have a case to stop them taking the car as security.

Thanks for all your help/advice - i will keep you updated with any future developments.

hi miss ripped off
as it costs money to register a bill of sale in the high court, it gets neglected a lot

the bill of sale must tally on 12 points with the agreement

well done for standing your ground

ime realy interested if they return a copy of the bill of sale.

for ref

you can contact the high court direct but will cost you fifty quid

Thank you will keep you posted

That's fantastic news - well done you : )

I took a quick look for any licenses held in the name of 'Roy Morgan'
and also looked for licenses for Trojan.......

Accepting that you did not give full details - my findings were:

Trojan Investments Limited - license lapsed on 15/06/93 - Co Reg No 1008755, and the lapsed licence No was 0044371 - based postcode SE15 2SY

Tojan Credit and Vehicle Brokers limited - license lapsed on 21/5/2006 - Co Reg No 2568468, and the lapsed licence No was 0313858 - based postcode W7 3ST

Trojan Consultants GB - license lapsed on 17/10/1996 - Co Reg No was 2789478, and the lapsed license No was 0360837 - based postcode OX11 8RS

Then there was information on a 'Mr Roy Herbert Morgan'

license No 0324831 lapsed 17/10/1996 - was a carpet specialist

License No 0468753 lapsed 26/5/2004 - was a carpet specialist but in addition to a credit brokerage license, this license also covered him for 'debt collection' post code area was EX16.

I would try to be sure that the 'Trojan' you speak of is not one of the above............and that the 'Mr Roy Morgan' you speak of is not Mr Roy Herbert Morgan'...........

Unbelievable!!!!
I will certainly look into it, how on earth do these people get away with it!!

Hi applecart,

a question,please.

How would I be able to check and find out information on licenses, as in post 11 above.

Is this something we all can do?

Thanks.

Hi Brindles

I visit: www2.crw.gov.uk/pr/default.aspx whenever I want to check a Company out - it is the 'Public Register' of all Companies who are licensed to hold and deal in the business of credit, such as; credit companies, credit brokers, debt collectors etc.

My understanding is that any Company or individual that offers credit, must hold a licence issued by the OFT.(Office of Fair Trading)

I also understand that the OFT is the organisation that issues this type of licence and can also 'suspend', 'vary' or 'revoke' a companies or individual's licence.

On the right hand side of the screen you will see 'search CCA' (maybe the other way round)

Click on to the link, and a screen will come up that basically asks you to input information on the company name or individual's name that you want to find out licensing information about - you can search on any criteria - could be all you know is the Companies Registration Number - just enter it and click 'search'

There is also a section that will give you info on the 'history' of a Companies or individual licence history - this is worth looking at as well.

Any member of the public is free to search this site and find out information about any company they wish to.

I hope this helps - if I can help further, please ask : )

Also in answer to the post by postggj.................. ....and to put a clearer prespective on the Registration of a Bill of Sale.........

Accept that; just because a Bill of Sale is Registered with the Supreme Court of Justice's stamp or seal on it - this does not on it's own cause the document to be 'legit' as your post implies.

It causes the document to be 'Registered'

For the document to be 'legit' - by this I mean - in order for the document to be 'valid' and 'enforceable' - it must also be correctly 'executed'

So, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but - please don't give advise of this nature as it is not strictly true and could cause some of those on the forum to be mislead, which I am sure is not your intention - but I hope this post will help keep things in perspective.

Originally Posted by applecart

Hi Brindles

I visit: www2.crw.gov.uk/pr/default.aspx whenever I want to check a Company out - it is the 'Public Register' of all Companies who are licensed to hold and deal in the business of credit, such as; credit companies, credit brokers, debt collectors etc.

My understanding is that any Company or individual that offers credit, must hold a licence issued by the OFT.(Office of Fair Trading)

I also understand that the OFT is the organisation that issues this type of licence and can also 'suspend', 'vary' or 'revoke' a companies or individual's licence.

On the right hand side of the screen you will see 'search CCA' (maybe the other way round)

Click on to the link, and a screen will come up that basically asks you to input information on the company name or individual's name that you want to find out licensing information about - you can search on any criteria - could be all you know is the Companies Registration Number - just enter it and click 'search'

There is also a section that will give you info on the 'history' of a Companies or individual licence history - this is worth looking at as well.

Any member of the public is free to search this site and find out information about any company they wish to.

I hope this helps - if I can help further, please ask : )

Hi applecart. yes it helps..Thank you, Great advice!

I also address the issue of 'costs' for information held at the High Court of Justice - when you need to write to the High Court of Justice - the Address is:

Room E17
enforcement officer
Royal Courts of Justice
The Strand
London
WC2A 2LL

The cost will be £5.00 if you know the 'registration' number of the Bill of Sale - (ask your lender for this information).

or - it will cost £40.00 if you send off for information without the registration number.

In all requests to the High Court of Justice you need to quote the BOS registration number, your loan reference number, your name and address and the name and address of the lender.

Where you make the request for a copy of the documents held due to the Bill of Sale showing a date that is outside the 7 days allowed by the BOS Act 1878 (as amended), I highly recommend that you ask the High Court to also confirm if an application has been made to 'rectify' - (The courts will understand exactly what you mean when you ask this question - so don't worry trying to explain the whole issue to them - just beg the question - besides the staff are not legally trained and would not be able to offer any interpretation of the 'validity' of the registration for you)

Thanks for the info to find out about companies on the public register.

I have sent the info to the high court as above to see if the BOS is registered - lets see what comes back

Thanks again for all the help

hi applecart its tottys again,
was just reading all the posts on here and ppl are saying about the stamp on the bill of sale. well i was just wondering does every ones have a stamp on them or is it just they ones you get from the courts for when you want to check its validity????
thanks

the original will be stamped by the high court
a copy of the document will have the original stamp