Hi all,

Just a quick question here,

Last year the old folks had an accident in a hospital car park. They were reversing out of the main thoroughfare and a doctor reversed out of a parking place hitting their car on the rear nearside quarter panel. Having noticed that there was CCTV footage in this area we contacted the hospital with regards to a copy of the footage, however apparently the CCTV footage had been erased as it's apparently stored on a hard drive, their excuse was that if there is more than average activity within this area the footage is automatically overwritten. So in effect the evidence was removed and there are no witnesses. The Doctor in question admitted it was her fault at the time of the accident, however, her Insurers Direct Line **** have stated that they are only liable for 50% liability as both cars were reversing at the time. They have tried threatening my parents if they decide to go to court over this with a "Part 36" offer which i would assume is to actually make them accept 50% liability as opposed to the judge finding them equally to blame as the Doctor, which would mean that they are liable for Direct Lines solicitor's costs.

My old folks were Third Party Fire & Theft covered, the Doctor was Fully Comp.

We have a solicitor of our own involved in this dispute and it has gone on for almost 12 months now. My dilemma is do we lie and accept 50% liability even though the damage to the car itself will show it was a side impact from the Doctors car, or should we take the chance on what the judge will say with regards to total liability bearing in mind that we may have to pay their costs if we lose?.

The most annoying thing about this, is that if it does go to court it will be small claims i.e one solicitor against another as opposed to actually a sopena being issued for all people involved.

Also does anybody know what the law states regarding 2 reversing cars in a car park?

Any information you can give would be appreciated

Regards.

What is the value of the damage to you and to the other person

What is the value of the damage to you and to the other person

Hi BankFodder, thanks for your reply,

We have no idea what the damage costs were regarding the Doctor and her car being repaired. However, the damage to my folks car was estimated at 700GBP + my fathers injury,total estimation approx 3000-3500GBP.The Solicitor has stated it's best if we accept 50/50 liability on the basis that both cars were reversing, which means that a claim will be logged against my folks and their Insurance Premiums will rocket.

It seems to me that this is just another example of typical British Injustice i.e even if you tell the truth but can't prove it because of this utterly stupid law regarding cars reversing you automatically are both to blame, you still get penalised.

We even contacted the Hospital M.D regarding this over the fact that the CCTV system they have seems to be useless, which in turn was investigated. The outcome was that they said that the people who organize the security have been called in to alter their system.

Our Insurers L.V and ourselves are pretty certain that the footage went conveniently missing and quite possibly the footage may have shown the Doctor on her mobile whilst reversing at speed, however we can't prove anything and it seems the Hospital staff and security are looking after their own.

My folks are both 76 years old now and they really don't need this grief, but it seems we will have to bow down to these people or be possibly landed with a solicitor's bill.

Regards.

I would advise you to double-check with an technology expert regarding the hospital's story about the CCTV footage. Maybe what they're saying is completely true and there's nothing they can do about it, but it is also possible they just told you that to stick up for their doctor and avoid being involved in any legal action etc.

I would advise you to double-check with an technology expert regarding the hospital's story about the CCTV footage. Maybe what they're saying is completely true and there's nothing they can do about it, but it is also possible they just told you that to stick up for their doctor and avoid being involved in any legal action etc.

Hi tom,

The reason why we doubt them is because my brother and i called into the Hospital about the CCTV footage the day after the accident and the person monitoring the CCTV system whom we spoke to said it would be no problem getting the footage we required, he even showed footage from 8 AM the same day of the accident, the time of our accident was 3.30 PM. The actual car park only holds about 25 cars when it's full, so the camera's would not be working overtime thus rewriting the hard drive, all's i can say is that the security systems hard drive must be minute if this is the case, or their excuse is total bull.

Never the less we can't prove anything.

Regards.

Whatever the reaosn for the lack of video evidence, there is nothing you can do about it now.

Thee is no fixed law about reversing in carparks.

However a side impact to you suggests that your car was on the main throughfare of the car park so that you had right of way and that the doctor pulled out without looking.

Who heard the doctor admit liability?

Bcause of th evalue of the claim, 5000-15000 this will be fast tracked so there is a risk of some limited cost liability if you lose.

They could make a part 36 offer and you would have to work out whether or not to accept it but of course you would only be liable for costs from the moment they made the offer and you refused to accept it.

I think that it might be worth playing a little tough on this one.

Presumably you have got full damage reports etc.

You could consider sending them a 7 day LBA and then suing. Don't bother starting the threats if you are not going to follow it through. At least you would get their defence and would undestand more about their case.

You could start off by rejecting their offer. Point out that their client drove into your right of way and that this together with their client's admission will form the basis of your claim.

Tell them that you are preparing to bring a claim against them unless they can improve their offer very substantially.

Be polite but brusque with them. Make it clear that this matter has gone on long enough and you are no longer in the mood and you are quite happy to put the matter before the courts.

Make it clear that even if they try a part 36 offer, they will be faced with their costs at least until then.

Give them 7 days and then follow up with the LBA then sue.

It is up to you.

If you don't fancy this then accept the 50%

Whatever the reaosn for the lack of video evidence, there is nothing you can do about it now.

 

Thee is no fixed law about reversing in carparks.

 

However a side impact to you suggests that your car was on the main throughfare of the car park so that you had right of way and that the doctor pulled out without looking.

Who heard the doctor admit liability?--------Only my folks and a passer by who cleared the damage from both cars off the road

 

Bcause of th evalue of the claim, 5000-15000 this will be fast tracked so there is a risk of some limited cost liability if you lose.

They could make a part 36 offer and you would have to work out whether or not to accept it but of course you would only be liable for costs from the moment they made the offer and you refused to accept it.

I think that it might be worth playing a little tough on this one.

 

Presumably you have got full damage reports etc.-------- The solicitor has not even bothered with engineers reports, however i can get an AA report done if need be.

 

You could consider sending them a 7 day LBA and then suing. Don't bother starting the threats if you are not going to follow it through. At least you would get their defence and would undestand more about their case.-------- can you please explain more about this LBA and can we do this through our solicitor?.

 

You could start off by rejecting their offer. Point out that their client drove into your right of way and that this together with their client's admission will form the basis of your claim.

 

Tell them that you are preparing to bring a claim against them unless they can improve their offer very substantially.

Be polite but brusque with them. Make it clear that this matter has gone on long enough and you are no longer in the mood and you are quite happy to put the matter before the courts.

Make it clear that even if they try a part 36 offer, they will be faced with their costs at least until then.

Give them 7 days and then follow up with the LBA then sue.

 

It is up to you.

If you don't fancy this then accept the 50%

Many thanks BankFodder, i have answered your questions after the --- i will put this to my folks although i think it maybe me who deals with this from now on.

Best regards.

Your solicitor will want easy solution on this. They almost always do.

If you want to play tough and you want it done properly then you need to do it yourself

Your solicitor will want easy solution on this. They almost always do.

If you want to play tough and you want it done properly then you need to do it yourself

I fully understand this, as he has been less than useless up to now. I have just spoken to the folks and they have stated that they will not accept ANY liability whatsoever, regardless of costs. I will speak to their Solicitor tomorrow and see what he has to say. The Solicitor was quite interested in this claim once he found out that my father was injured and stated that with the pictures we have provided it would be simple, however now his confident prowess is slightly diminished since they came up with the part36 offer, whether this is because he has his fee's added on top of the claim which are guaranteed i don't really know and for that matter as you say 50/50 is easier for him.

My question is, if i do sack the Solicitor and issue litigation through the small claims court regarding this matter myself, i presumably would have to pay his costs up to now?. If i had of known about all this i would never have involved a Solicitor in the first place as i have been through small claims in the past,however, it was many years ago.

The folks have already paid to get certain necessary repairs done regarding the bumper of the car for it's M.O.T as the garage said it was not really road legal. These repairs cost 260GBP and had to be done pending the outcome of the dispute.

Will keep you informed of what happens next and many thanks for your advice.

Best regards.

If you sack the solicitor then he will want to be paid. What is your deal with the solicitor? If it is no win no fee then you may still be liable for the other side's costs but not your solicitor's.

Of course, the solicitor is working for you and you are entitled to instruct him to go further - as long as it doesn't fly in the face of reason.

Whatever you do, you need to show the other side that you are not going to dawdle anymore - and you need to let your solicitor know that you are not happy with the pace so far.

The Part 36 offer would also include your solicitor's costs.

Hi Bank,

Yeah the Solicitor is "No win no fee". I have just left a message with the Solicitor's Secretary for him to call me back at his earliest convenience.

I will update the thread when i have spoken to him.

Regards.

Hi Bank,

The Solicitor never called back unfortunately today, however, the folks called me and said that they have received a letter from him.

Basically Direct Line are not prepared to increase their offer of 50/50 liability.

He has also stated that because both parties were reversing at the time there is a reasonable chance that a court may consider both parties are equally to blame, furthermore the insurance company acting on behalf of the third party are threatening to issue proceedings to recover their outlay.

He also states that he requires copies of a photo driving licence or passport to comply with money laundering regulations, which is comical in my opinion, although i do understand it's a regulation he has to adhere to.

I am of the opinion that the reason why that most of these claims are dealt with on a 50/50 basis is because the majority of the time both parties have legal cover on their policy and therefore both insurers employ their own solicitors to deal with any litigation, it is not in their interest to actually draw things out on the premise that judgement maybe given 51/49 to one or the other party. The cheapest way of dealing with this from an insurance companies perspective is to share the cost without court intervention. As our solicitor is not employed by either insurance company we feel that it is in our interest to issue litigation via him and bring this matter to court for a judge to decide.

Your opinion of this would be appreciated, i have told the folks to leave it with me and i will reply to the solicitors letter on Monday next week.

Regards.

Received a letter today from the so called solicitor:-

Dear Mr xxxxx

I still remain of the view expressed in my letter of the 23rd March, that there is a reasonable chance that a court could consider both parties equally to blame for this accident.

The evidence of the third party may well be that she looked to her right, saw your vehicle which had driven past her vehicle.

She therefore believed that it was safe to reverse and as she started to reverse, you also started to reverse and the collision ocurred.

The third party will no doubt suggest that before you started to reverse along the main thoroughfare, you should have been on the look out for any other vehicles which maybe pulling out from their parking places.

I therefore consider that your claim does carry a risk that the court may apportion liability between yourself and the third party. I will therefore not be prepared to issue proceedings on your behalf given that the third party insurers have now offered 50/50.

If i was to issue proceedings and the court found you 50% at fault, then you would be liable to pay the third party's costs from the date that the 50/50 offer was made in September of last year.

I note that you do not have the benefit of before the event legal expenses insurance.

It is possible to apply for the after event legal expenses insurance but given the accident circumstances and given the previous offer of 50/50, i believe it is unlikely that an insurance company would offer an indemnity and therefore you would have to bear the risk of losing.

If this case proceeded to a hearing, i anticipate the costs of the defendant would be between 3,000 - 5,000 GBP. On top of that as the offer of 50/50 has now been made, i would not be prepared to proceed to issue proceedings on a no win no fee basis and you would be liable to pay my costs of the hearing also.

If the court decided that 50/50 was appropriate, then you would not be entitled to your own costs from September of 2008 onwards and my costs would be in the region of between 2,500- 3,000 GBP.

Under the circumstances, i do not believe that it is worthwhile taking the risk and my recommendation would be to settle matters on a 50/50 basis.

If you do not accept my advice and you wish me to issue proceedings on your behalf, i will require from you a cheque in the sum of 1,000 GBP on account of my costs.

I look forward to hearing from you.

In my opinion i have never read such garbage in my life, it seems the solicitor had no intention whatsoever in taking this to court as he has made his money on the accident claim. Looks like the folks will have to bow out on this one and accept liability, besides if we were to continue and pay the 1,000GBP he would no doubt cock the whole thing up anyway as his letter writing for starters leaves a lot to be desired.

Some advice for the caggers, if you intend fighting a claim against an insurance company similar to ours, do it yourself via small claims as these no win no fee solicitors are a waste of space.

Regards.

Woah there.

Can you dig out the T&Cs of the NWNF? On what grounds are they changing their terms 1/2 way through and decide it is no longer no WIN no FEE? Now it's welllll it may be a win it may be not so we're going to want paying in case we don't win? Surely that's what a regular solictor does?

I'd be tempted to write back to them and say: "fine, if you're not prepared to take our case on a NWNF, then withdraw but since you haven't won for us, you can't be expected to get a fee." (which is fairly logical) and then DIY as advised by Bankfodder. You will be a lot more motivated to win this than an ambulance chaser who's only interested in his cut.

From my view, I would think extremely carefully before proceeding (not withstanding what has been said previously).

Unless you have some concrete evidence, there is every chance it will go 50/50. I am surprised that it has gone this far. A court will not look favourably on something like this being brought to it. It falls to evidence: do you have enough to prove your case over theirs? If not, then accept the offer no matter how much it might gall you.

Thanks for the advice.

The letter i posted above is from the old folks solicitors sidekick (partner in crime).

I called them today and spoke to their secretary as our solicitor was sunning himself on holiday again, the one who wrote this letter was on the phone which annoyed me, they never want to speak to me on the phone for some unknown reason.

Anyway to cut a long story short i expressed my opinion and also stated that the letter (above) my folks have received is utter bull and asked if the partner had read the file before he posted this letter to the folks?. She stated that if you speak to him he will have to open the file and as he is not clued up on it and the fact he is not dealing with this claim it's better to wait for Your solicitor to get back off his hols and speak to him, which will be next wednesday. I said then why is he writing utter rubbish if he has no idea what has happened?. i got the impression that she totally understood, however it will not be beneficial to the folks as the solicitors have made their mind up regarding this claim in my opinion, they don't want to move their asses regarding this dispute.

Bookworm i have told the folks to sort the letters out which have been received although i think that the Terms & Conditions were just typed out, however i will post them when i see them if need be.

This latest letter has totally scared them with the costs etc and they have said forget about it, we will just accept 50/50. I am of the opinion now that i am seriously thinking of sacking the solicitor and stating sod you like bookworm says, no win no fee, furthermore my old folks are not here to subsidise your shortfalls and incompetence as a solicitor.

Any comments before next Wednesday will be appreciated, so that i have some ammunition when i speak to this idiot.

If you require a link to their website i will gladly provide it in P.M.

Regards.

You mentioned earlier that a passerby helped clear debris from the road and also heard the doctor admit liability. Do you have contact details for this person.

You folks should have canvassed any independent witnesses at the time; if they didn't, they haven't helped their own case.

You mentioned earlier that a passerby helped clear debris from the road and also heard the doctor admit liability. Do you have contact details for this person.

 

You folks should have canvassed any independent witnesses at the time; if they didn't, they haven't helped their own case.

Hi pat,

Unfortunately no, we don't have this persons details and understandably what you say is correct, in hindsight they have realised their mistake by not getting the details of the witness, nothing we can do about this now.

I think we may have to accept 50% liability, however i intend looking into the Solicitor's Regulator as they have totally gone from NWNF to needing payment as Bookworm has stated.

Their Regulator is the Solicitors Regulation Authority, so i will see what they have to say about this situation.

Regards & many thanks.

Hi all,

I have been going through the Solicitors T&C's and it looks like he has managed to cover all avenues:mad:

Looks like i can't even sack him if i wanted to as the folks would be liable for his costs.

Regards.

Solicitors T&C.pdf

Hi folks,

The old folks have received their cheque (15 months later) which amounts to 1500GBP on a 50/50 liability basis as full and final settlement to their claim.

Now as i intend to log a complaint against this so called solicitor, especially having received a letter off DirectLine (which i asked for) regarding his costs which amount to 1884GBP for dealing with this case, have any caggers dealt with the LCS?.

The basis of my complaint will be the fact he had all the facts form day 1 as to their situation but asked for funding (1000GBP) to continue if the folks disputed the third party's claim. LCS seem quite interested in this as they say it's either NWNF or paid legal representation,it can't be what the solicitor decides halfway through the case, which i totally agree with.

I would appreciate any comments from people who have dealt with LCS or any suggestions, before i complete my letter to the solicitor in question.

Best regards.