Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)




Last Will and Testament Kit


Make a legally valid will without the fuss and expense of a solicitor - includes a full step-by-step guide.

£9.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

BAILIFFS - The Law and Your Rights

Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.

The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.

£13.95 + £2.00 (P&P)


Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg. 05783665 in the UK

reg. office:
923 Finchley Road
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  1. #1
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    rosaespanola Novitiate

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    Default PPC citing Pre Action Protocols to get me to give driver details

    Further to my previous post (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-required.html), I wrote a letter to the PPC asking them to either substantiate their claim that I (as registered keeper) am under an obligation to provide them with driver details or alternatively to provide evidence that I was the driver myself.
    I received the following from them a few days later:

    "We pursue this matter through Civil Contract Law and as such we request driver details in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocols. We would like to draw your attention back to the Pre-Action Protocols, in particular Civil Procedureicon Rule 31.18.2 which provides that any person not directly party to the wrongdoing may incur no personal liability, but comes under a duty to assist the person who has been wronged by giving him full information and disclosing the identity of the wrongdoers. This is called the Norwich Pharmacal Principle and can be directly applied to the current situation.
    We enclose photographs of the above vehicle entering and leaving the site. The cameras which monitor the carpark are not designed to take photos of the driver." They then go on to say that I have to pay them £60 or give them driver details by x date or the charge will be £100 and possible court proceedings.

    Now even if I was desperate to co-operate and wanted to give them driver details, I can't actually remember who was in charge of the car at the time, since they didn't leave a notice on the car and didn't contact me until 2-3 weeks later. What I really need to know is whether this "duty" they refer to is actually a legal obligation, and what action they would be able to take against me if I continue to tell them that I cannot give them driver details.
    Thanks to anyone who can offer advice, I appreciate all assistance, but please try and stick to the legal position rather than just saying the PPC is talking rubbish...I need something concrete I can throw back at them if they try to take me to court!


  2. #2
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    Default Re: PPC citing Pre Action Protocols to get me to give driver details

    all you need to do - (if you do anything at all ) is to write back and say that you do not have the information that they are requesting.

    End of story.

    Even under s172 of the rta the police cannot take action against you if you can prove reasonably that you CANNOT answer the question as opposed to WILL NOT answer.

    This is a completely different situation. They have no legal recourse against you as you can honestly say - under oath in necessary - that you do not know who was driving.

    Opinions are offered in good faith based upon personal experience and research. Before making any irreversible decisions the opinion of a qualified, registered and insured legal professional should be sought.

    If my advice or information has assisted you in any way - please click my scales.

    thanks

    [COLOR=red]Nat West Charges £1056 [B]WON[/B][/COLOR]
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: PPC citing Pre Action Protocols to get me to give driver details

    Utter and total drivel. (the letter, not your answer FlyingDoc)

    If you really do want to give them an answer, simply refer them to CPR 31.1.2 and tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine.

    31.1 Scope of this part.
    (1) This Part sets out rules about the disclosure and inspection of documents.

    (2) This Part applies to all claims except a claim on the small claims track.

    Of course,the most effective way is to file that letter and ignore them, knowing full well that you now know a biit more about the law than they appear to.

    MBNA - Agreed to refund £970 in full without conditions. Cheque received Sat 5th Aug.
    Lloyds - Settled for an undisclosed sum.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: PPC citing Pre Action Protocols to get me to give driver details

    As a matter of interesticon what would constitute 'wrong doing'

    As the PPC is a third party and as such have not suffered a direct loss AND the fact that no criminality has occured then a ''wrong doing'' has not occured and thus would not come under the civil proceedure rules.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: PPC citing Pre Action Protocols to get me to give driver details

    According to this document which was a briefing on how the judgement quoted by the PPC affected human rights issues

    http://www.39essex.com/documents/JB_...per_060207.pdf

    There is no restriction according to the legal nature of the wrongdoing. It may
    be:
    (1) a tort (Norwich Pharmacal (supra));
    (2) a breach of contract; e.g. a contract of employment (Ashworth
    Hospital Authority v MGN Ltd (supra));
    (3) a breach of confidence (e.g. British Steel v Granada Television Ltd
    [1981] 1 AC 1096);
    4
    (4) a defamation; Totalise plc v The Motley Fool Ltd & Interactive
    Investor Ltd [2001] EWHC (QB)
    (5) a breach of statutory duty; e.g. breach of privacy under the Data
    Protection Act 1989 (Hughes v Carratu International plc [2006]
    EWHC 1791 (QB).

    Of course, it's all immaterial unless the PPC wants to take the case beyond small claims, which would be very unlikely with the costs involved.


    MBNA - Agreed to refund £970 in full without conditions. Cheque received Sat 5th Aug.
    Lloyds - Settled for an undisclosed sum.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: PPC citing Pre Action Protocols to get me to give driver details

    Is this a Perky one ? On planet Perky Norwich Pharmacal orders are in vogue. On earth its a different story. Equally their opinion of the Pre-Action Protocols is drivel. Don't say anymore about the details of what happened - either in a post here or in any PM to anyone. Some PPCs love to use forums to trap people and it has been known for PPCs to pose as 'helpers'. Looks like many violations of The Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 No. in their letters. Perky hasn't got his head around those yet by the looks of things. But as he can't get his head around CPR or Norwich Orders what do you expect ? His in-house 'legal team' seem to be letting him down badly in my opinion. Cease all communication with the PPC. Keep all their letters in safe keeping.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: PPC citing Pre Action Protocols to get me to give driver details

    I think most people can skirt round this with a genuine lapse of memory

    09/07/09 Business Studies BA(Hons) 2:1

    eCar Insurance overpayment - £325
    Settled in full - 15/09/08
    NatWest Student A/C bank charges - £260
    Settled under hardship scheme - 08/06/09
    Natwest Business A/C bank charges - £60
    Settled in full as GOGW - 20/04/09
    Santander Consumer Finance late payment fees - £60
    Part settled for £48 - 01/03/08
    Peugeot Finance late payment fees - £50
    Settled in full before county court hearing - 01/09/09
    Peugeot Finance overpayment of £247
    Settled in full - 01/12/08
    Valley Leisure - complaint about collections agent
    £160 part refund of gym membership in compensation - 01/02/09
    HFC Bank - complaint about payment deducted from my account on wrong date
    GOGW £10 - 01/05/09

  8. #8
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    Default Re: PPC citing Pre Action Protocols to get me to give driver details

    Besides, the PPC have to prove that a contract even existed in the first place - just more hot air from them - they will tell you the sky is pink if they believe it will get you to pay their fanciful parking charges. Ignore them.

    09/07/09 Business Studies BA(Hons) 2:1

    eCar Insurance overpayment - £325
    Settled in full - 15/09/08
    NatWest Student A/C bank charges - £260
    Settled under hardship scheme - 08/06/09
    Natwest Business A/C bank charges - £60
    Settled in full as GOGW - 20/04/09
    Santander Consumer Finance late payment fees - £60
    Part settled for £48 - 01/03/08
    Peugeot Finance late payment fees - £50
    Settled in full before county court hearing - 01/09/09
    Peugeot Finance overpayment of £247
    Settled in full - 01/12/08
    Valley Leisure - complaint about collections agent
    £160 part refund of gym membership in compensation - 01/02/09
    HFC Bank - complaint about payment deducted from my account on wrong date
    GOGW £10 - 01/05/09


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Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE