Thread: Lloyds TSB-judge has granted stay incorrectly-Help

Some time ago my daughter was lucky enough to win her case against Lloyds TSB when they requested a stay in court. This was on a technicality as they had failed to lodge their paperwork correctly.
Since then Lloyds have made her life a misery and we are now back in the court system against them and the case is rather complicated. In brief we are claiming that they took a payment of over £450 (my cheque) that was given to them on the understanding they would close her account. They took the money, but refused to close the account. Prior to this they were instructed twice in writting to cancel ALL d/d and s/o. When they recieved the above money they paid out over £150 to their own credit card, in two payments, putting her back into overdraft again with all the associated charges. They would still not close the account charging her £10 per month for the account. We changed the account type so there was no monthly charges. After April 07 the statements stopped coming it seems off their own back they then closed the account still owing her money.
Put the papers into the courts with much more detail than above, Lloyds issued a standard defence against "Bank Charges", they then applied for a stay. We objected to the courts staying this case as it was nothing to do with the OFT test case. the Judges direction arrived to day and he has granted a stay, incorrectly in my opinion, re the test case.
Can anyone tell me what we do now???

Can you explain why it is incorrect? The bank have used what is called the Rght of set off with regards to the £450.

Originally Posted by yourbank

Can you explain why it is incorrect? The bank have used what is called the Rght of set off with regards to the £450.

Our letter layed out how we came to the amount offered and said "if this is acceptable" please confirm in writting and close the account. They took the money, never confirmed if it was or was not acceptable and when we questioned about the account closure refused to close it without explanation.
After this 62 letters went between us and Lloyds TSB and they still did not answer why the account could not be closed but then suddenly closed it.
The last letter said to the effect "we are sorry you feel the need to take this matter to the county court and therefore will await the ruling from the court"

Originally Posted by flyingdoc

right of set off my bottom.

From what the OP says the he made the payment on the understanding (which the bank apparently agreed to) that they would close the account.

They took the money and then did not close the account.

They play fast and loose with the rules, make promises that they have no intention of keeping and because they hold all the cards get away with pleasing themselves.

IF I ever come across a good banker I will shoot him before he goes bad.

What was the legal basis of your claim because I still am not getting this one? Have you asked for a SAR?
Did you get anything in writing prior to paying the money into the account?

That they took the money from us under false pretences and payed out from the same after being told on 2 occasions to cancel all d/d & s/o, this put her back into and overdraft situation that they then withdrew (the overdraft) and continued to then add more charges to the account putting her futher into the red. We actualy whent to the branch and refused to leave until they sorted the situation, all they would do was change the account o one without a fee attached.
We never got anything in writting from them prior to sending the money nor have we requested a Subject access request.

What is the legal case law that you are using? I still don't get that. Full and final Settlement requires the fact that the bank have agreed to your proposal.

Originally Posted by yourbank

What is the legal case law that you are using? I still don't get that. Full and final Settlement requires the fact that the bank have agreed to your proposal.

Sorry have been away from my desk since last night.
Your remarks are making me think that I have either done everthing the wrong way or I cannot ask the court to rule on this.
The bank were sent a payment with conditions under which the payment was being made, one of these was to close the account. The bank ignored the conditions, never acknowledged reciept of the cheque but cashed it all the same & credited it to her account. They then paid out about £180 of the £462 to a credit card company in direct contradiction to my daughters two lots of written instruction to cancel all DD & SO. In addition to this they carried on charging an account charge of £10 per month, refusing then to close the account. three days before her court award arrived at her account-contra to court orders. They removed her overdraft facility causing her to loose £325 of her award straight away.
I cannot beleive that no matter who it is bank, business or private individual can operate in such a way and then refuse to rectify the numerous situations and the client(my daughter) has no recourse via the legal system.
Please dont say we have no case.

Originally Posted by BankFodder

You will have to complete a form N244 asking for the stay to be lifted.
It is quite correct that if the bank are properly informed as to a supervening purpose of a particular payment in then they are not entitled to enjoy their right of set-off.
They would be obliged to inform you that they did not accept the basis upon which you intended to pay the money in.

Thanks BankFodder, this is what I thought. I have never heard the term "set off". Whats that?

Originally Posted by pantheman

Sorry have been away from my desk since last night.
Your remarks are making me think that I have either done everthing the wrong way or I cannot ask the court to rule on this.
The bank were sent a payment with conditions under which the payment was being made, one of these was to close the account. The bank ignored the conditions, never acknowledged reciept of the cheque but cashed it all the same & credited it to her account. They then paid out about £180 of the £462 to a credit card company in direct contradiction to my daughters two lots of written instruction to cancel all DD & SO. In addition to this they carried on charging an account charge of £10 per month, refusing then to close the account. three days before her court award arrived at her account-contra to court orders. They removed her overdraft facility causing her to loose £325 of her award straight away.
I cannot beleive that no matter who it is bank, business or private individual can operate in such a way and then refuse to rectify the numerous situations and the client(my daughter) has no recourse via the legal system.
Please dont say we have no case.

I think we are talking about Full and final settlements of an account, right? Was there an overdraft on that account?
banking: firms' right of 'set off'
The above is the right of set off.

Originally Posted by yourbank

I think we are talking about Full and final settlements of an account, right? Was there an overdraft on that account?
banking: firms' right of 'set off'
The above is the right of set off.

Yes the account was overdrawn but she had an agreed overdraft and it was this I was paying off to close the account as we realised it was silly to leave it open and costing an additional £10 per month for nothing. She was not over her overdraft limit.
Re the set-off. it seems we may have a problem here as the two paymnets were to Lloyds credit card, however. My daughter was going through a divorce, hubby had left her with what was considered "joint" debts. Her solicitor had contacted Lloyds TSB visa and they had agreed to freeze the debt pending the divorce settlement. This money, aprox £6000 has been with her solicitor since November 2007 pending the conclusion of her legal aid Bill of Cost. this is in the very final stages now.
No notification was made by the bank that they were intending to set-off her visa card debt with the money paid to them.

Was it a joint account? The bank do not tell you about the right of set off because if you knew prior to it, then you might take all the money out beforehand.
Was the credit cards in her name only?

Originally Posted by yourbank

Was it a joint account? The bank do not tell you about the right of set off because if you knew prior to it, then you might take all the money out beforehand.
Was the credit cards in her name only?

Both the bank account and her one credit card were in her name only. Her solicitor informed Lloyds Visa of the situation and requested they freeze the account pending the matrimonial settlement-they agreed to this.
I understand that the bank would not notify her that is was going to set-off money from the account to her credit card but would it not have to notify her that it had taken this action because none of the reams of correspondence mentions "set-off" it does some months after the event say that it is in the credit cards T&C's. They were asked for a copy of the T&C's but never produced them. I did speak to the local Lloyds manager about this and he said he had never heard of the card or bank T&C's mentioning this.

Originally Posted by pantheman

Both the bank account and her one credit card were in her name only. Her solicitor informed Lloyds Visa of the situation and requested they freeze the account pending the matrimonial settlement-they agreed to this.
I understand that the bank would not notify her that is was going to set-off money from the account to her credit card but would it not have to notify her that it had taken this action because none of the reams of correspondence mentions "set-off" it does some months after the event say that it is in the credit cards T&C's. They were asked for a copy of the T&C's but never produced them. I did speak to the local Lloyds manager about this and he said he had never heard of the card or bank T&C's mentioning this.

They don't notify you before or after the event. However, did the lawyer get that from Lloyds in writing or verbally(there should be a record of that).

Originally Posted by yourbank

They don't notify you before or after the event. However, did the lawyer get that from Lloyds in writing or verbally(there should be a record of that).

I think so, the card company have now put the debt out to an agency so the soliciitor has written to Lloyds visa about the agreement and lloyds are "examining the situation".
We have offered to drop our case if LLoyds write off the card debt and this is underconsideration as the amount a about the same however now this stay has been granted-wrongly in my opnion-this could change our bargining position.

Just to bring the thread up to date I have written back to the court (on there advice) and explained in detail that my claim is not related to the OFT v The Banks with Justice Smith. Lloyds TSB have misuderstood the claim and lodged a defence that is irelevant to the claim and by doing so have mislead the court into granting a stay, on this basis will they remove it so the case can be heard.
Wait and see now.

Originally Posted by pantheman

Just to bring the thread up to date I have written back to the court (on there advice) and explained in detail that my claim is not related to the OFT v The Banks with Justice Smith. Lloyds TSB have misuderstood the claim and lodged a defence that is irelevant to the claim and by doing so have mislead the court into granting a stay, on this basis will they remove it so the case can be heard.
Wait and see now.

Best of luck to you. I REALLY hate Lloyds TSB scumbags and they deserve all that they get

Originally Posted by dazzasimm

Best of luck to you. I REALLY hate Lloyds TSB scumbags and they deserve all that they get

Thanks for the support, I agree with you. The treatment of my daughter by Lloyds TSB over the past 3/4 years is beyond belief by what used to be a member of a respected institution.

I though I would update this thread as its, so far, good news.
I wrote to the court in March making it clear the Lloyds had submitted a standard type defence and on the basis of that the court had been mislead by Lloyds and threfore granted the stay Lloyds requested.

Last week I get.

Ref "General Form of Judgement or Order" dated 6th June 2009.

1 The stay is lifted

2 The defence is struck out as it is in standard form and does not address the issue of the case.

3 The defedants shall by *** file and serve a defence directed to the allegations in the claim.

I say well done to the Judge that reveiw the case, fair play at last.