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Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Hi
Grateful for any advice on this- haven't yet had a letter from Southeastern trains but I want to be prepared.
I bought a peak ticket in the morning - return to London terminals- from Eltham (zone 4). On my return I got on a train to Woolwich Arsenal (also zone 4) as the Eltham train had gone.
Prevously I had asked when buying a ticket if I could do this- and been told it was ok as its 'in the same zone' I have done this LOADS of times in since and never given it a second thought. However- I obviously cant prove I was given this advice!
Anyway, on this day there were ticket inspectors waiting at Woolwich and when I showed my ticket, expecting to be let through as I normally am, they said it wasn’t valid. Cue big argument (fortunately not sweary!). I refused to pay the fine as I have always been able to travel this way in the past and never been told that I was, in fact, acting illegally. I told the ticket inspector that I thought my ticket was valid for the journey.
I gave my details, was cautioned and asked lots of questions. When I asked to read through what he had written down it was inaccurate and I refused to sign.
He then said I could go (although he refused to open the gate saying I could climb under the barrier or crawl under- my choice! Had to get someone else to let me out…nice.) I have no idea what to expect now.
The station I arrived at was 2 stops past Blackheath- the ticket was entirely valid to this point)- Eltham is 2 stops past on the other line.
Can anyone advise me of what might happen next and whether I have a valid case fo contesting this? I wasnt given anything to take away with me- he just took my ticket.
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
The ticket was a return to London from Eltham, unless there was disruption on the Eltham line, you should have returned to Eltham, to return to a different station within the zone you should have bought a travelcard (all day travelcard £10). Remember the zones circle London, by your reasoning traveling from Eltham to Richmond via London should be allowed because you are still returning to a zone 4 station. The inspector probably kept your ticket because it is now evidence, (ticket to Eltham taken from passenger at Woolwich Arsenal).
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Hi (i work for a train company, I deal in matters like this every day)
Don't bother as this will go no where, you will not get a letter from southeastern as the jobsworth took a written statement from you has not done his part of the statement correctly, he has gone through the motions as it frightens the customer (as you get cautioned), you are allowed to travel to any station that is in the same zone as what your ticket has printed on it, even if it doesn't state the zones. If I were you I would write a letter of complaint state the day and time and southeastern will investigate this matter for you, please do this and also state the point about your ticket was valid for zone 4 stations. The RPO (Ticket inspector) will be based at London bridge, I will also highlight this matter to my manager.
PM me if you are still unsure.
Regards
PS Oh and always get a name of the RPO, they all wear name badges so take note.
Never get rude and never swear as this is what they want you to do.
Originally Posted by glitterkitty
Hi
Grateful for any advice on this- haven't yet had a letter from Southeastern trains but I want to be prepared.
I bought a peak ticket in the morning - return to London terminals- from Eltham (zone 4). On my return I got on a train to Woolwich Arsenal (also zone 4) as the Eltham train had gone.
Prevously I had asked when buying a ticket if I could do this- and been told it was ok as its 'in the same zone' I have done this LOADS of times in since and never given it a second thought. However- I obviously cant prove I was given this advice!
Anyway, on this day there were ticket inspectors waiting at Woolwich and when I showed my ticket, expecting to be let through as I normally am, they said it wasn’t valid. Cue big argument (fortunately not sweary!). I refused to pay the fine as I have always been able to travel this way in the past and never been told that I was, in fact, acting illegally. I told the ticket inspector that I thought my ticket was valid for the journey.
I gave my details, was cautioned and asked lots of questions. When I asked to read through what he had written down it was inaccurate and I refused to sign.
He then said I could go (although he refused to open the gate saying I could climb under the barrier or crawl under- my choice! Had to get someone else to let me out…nice.) I have no idea what to expect now.
The station I arrived at was 2 stops past Blackheath- the ticket was entirely valid to this point)- Eltham is 2 stops past on the other line.
Can anyone advise me of what might happen next and whether I have a valid case fo contesting this? I wasnt given anything to take away with me- he just took my ticket.
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Originally Posted by Gary29
The ticket was a return to London from Eltham, unless there was disruption on the Eltham line, you should have returned to Eltham, to return to a different station within the zone you should have bought a travelcard (all day travelcard £10). Remember the zones circle London, by your reasoning traveling from Eltham to Richmond via London should be allowed because you are still returning to a zone 4 station. The inspector probably kept your ticket because it is now evidence, (ticket to Eltham taken from passenger at Woolwich Arsenal).
Sorry I'm not the bearer of better news.
This infomation is INCORRECT. I work in the revenue department for a train company. You can use your ticket for ANY station in the same zone.
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
I was always told that NR tickets are issued as point to point tickets, i.e. station A to B, it is not valid at station C regardless of if station C is in the same zone as B.
Its classed as Travel Beyond Validity.
However discretion would come into the situation if station B/C are priced the same.
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Originally Posted by mc661
I was always told that NR tickets are issued as point to point tickets, i.e. station A to B, it is not valid at station C regardless of if station C is in the same zone as B.
Its classed as Travel Beyond Validity.
However discretion would come into the situation if station B/C are priced the same.
Nope this is no longer the case, as I stated before you can use point to point tickets as travel cards(not valid on buses and underground) the TOC's do not want this to be common knowledge, but I can assure you this is correct. you will win any appeal if you state the station is in the same zone as the one your ticket has printed on it. This rule came into effect in 2008 (approx April)
This has been introduced as london TOC's have to do this as part of the PAYG oyster system that will be implemented from 2009
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Originally Posted by blazer666_uk
Nope this is no longer the case, as I stated before you can use point to point tickets as travel cards(not valid on buses and underground) the TOC's do not want this to be common knowledge, but I can assure you this is correct. you will win any appeal if you state the station is in the same zone as the one your ticket has printed on it. This rule came into effect in 2008 (approx April)
This has been introduced as london TOC's have to do this as part of the PAYG oyster system that will be implemented from 2009
Nice to see they've distributed it among thier staff then isn't it.
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Originally Posted by blazer666_uk
Nope this is no longer the case, as I stated before you can use point to point tickets as travel cards(not valid on buses and underground) the TOC's do not want this to be common knowledge, but I can assure you this is correct. you will win any appeal if you state the station is in the same zone as the one your ticket has printed on it. This rule came into effect in 2008 (approx April)
This has been introduced as london TOC's have to do this as part of the PAYG oyster system that will be implemented from 2009
Absolute codswallop, until PAYG is introduced on NR, point to point tickets will be exactly that, point to point.
For example, if what you said was correct, London Terms to Wembley Central would be accepted at Grove Park, even though RSP wouldnt pass any part of the fare to the carrying TOC.
This is extremely bad advice and could cause someone real legal difficulties if challenged by Revenue Protection.
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Originally Posted by SRPO
Absolute codswallop, until PAYG is introduced on NR, point to point tickets will be exactly that, point to point.
For example, if what you said was correct, London Terms to Wembley Central would be accepted at Grove Park, even though RSP wouldnt pass any part of the fare to the carrying TOC.
This is extremely bad advice and could cause someone real legal difficulties if challenged by Revenue Protection.
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Firstly its not codswallop, contact RPSS and state this on your appeal and it WILL be quashed, secondly if you contact southeastern they will confirm this matter for you, ALL SOUTHEASTERN revenue staff have been informed of this matter and most competent staff are aware.
Please check facts first before ranting. I will even post the email sent from senior management.
I will state again that ALL stations in the same zone as your ticket is ARE valid and will be accepted, if you are issued a PF then this is wrong and you will win the appeal
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Originally Posted by blazer666_uk
Firstly its not codswallop, contact RPSS and state this on your appeal and it WILL be quashed, secondly if you contact southeastern they will confirm this matter for you, ALL SOUTHEASTERN revenue staff have been informed of this matter and most competent staff are aware.
Please check facts first before ranting. I will even post the email sent from senior management.
I will state again that ALL stations in the same zone as your ticket is ARE valid and will be accepted, if you are issued a PF then this is wrong and you will win the appeal
Please do post that email. If necessary use PM to preserve management and posters anonimity please. I shall certainly be following this up today. It is imperative that consistency is applied throughout this process and I am very keen to clarify this matter.
It is accepted that what you are referring to is the case for Oyster and for zonal card / paper tickets, because these are not point-to-point and stations, other than the originating station on paper tickets, are not named in any way.
I think we are all aware that such a change has been discussed for the LRT area and personally, I think it would be eminently sensible, BUT so far as I am aware there has been no formal instruction to apply the logic across the system yet and that is the basis of these comments.
If South-Eastern (or any other TOC) are applying a different set of rules to everyone else it is very important that this is clarified and it cannot be used as a generalisation applying to all TOCs
Furthermore RPSS at Portsmouth are part of the SE set-up and are only one of several companies handling the product of rail staff issued penalty fares and other tickets.
Specific information given can only be considered correct if it is provided by the actual company that handles the issues for the rail company on whose services a traveller is making their journey.
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Shows how much attention people pay to emails. This email was sent out in december the commercial brief that is released EVERY month, if ANY SE staff want a copy PM me with your internal email address and I will forward it to you
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Originally Posted by blazer666_uk
Please check facts first before ranting. I will even post the email sent from senior management.
Why not use the PM service available through this site as I asked in an earlier message?As I and others said earlier, we'd very much like to see this email and we're not all SE staff.
Re: Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
Originally Posted by blazer666_uk
Shows how much attention people pay to emails. This email was sent out in december the commercial brief that is released EVERY month, if ANY SE staff want a copy PM me with your internal email address and I will forward it to you
Return to different Zone 4 station by train- caution. Waiting for letter.
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Originally Posted by glitterkitty
