Thread: Oh, BE-have!! }(8^D)

Originally Posted by Wilma Shoozfit

Their customer service is truly appalling.

I have yet to become in ANY way a customer and I am certainly not in receipt of ANY service WHAT_SO_EVER. However, they have had some proper service from me And counting ...

It was their behaviour that alerted me to the wrongness of the situation.

When I converse with other creditors on the phone, they take me at my word and act accordingly, and so properly. They comply with the Banking Code, positively responding to my utter lack of income, incapacity, plight, hardship. They are helpful, they take my SOA over the phone, all is easy and stress-free. We do business, changes made to agreements persist, they accept token payments. They behave themselves, interest is frozen, the debt is honoured, all parties are content. For all I know they may even have the original CCA neatly filed. (We will see in due course).

When a person or organisation expects you to comply with regulations to the letter, whilst they freely flout them, you are being bullied.

When you have turned the tables on the bully by using the same body of regulations against them they cry 'Hey, foul, no fair!', and they wail, moan, shout, threaten, stamp and make threats in the hope you will back down in the face of their tantrum.

When their repeated pattern of behaviour (which elicits a stressful response in you because you are being repeatedly wronged) gradually comes to dominate your daily life, you are being bullied.

When you are being phoned by a computer calling system over a dozen times a day, at work and at home, when they are not lawfully permitted to do so, and you are in receipt of letters carrying legal-sounding threats from collectors which are also unlawfully issued ... you are being bullied.

If you are genuinely in the right, and you stand your ground, stick to your guns, apply your rights, and remain unafraid, they cannot stand up to you and, ultimately, must back down. Bullies are cowards who cannot stand to have their imperfections revealed to the public. Whether it is a person or a culture doing the bullying, the outcome is the same for the targets unless they stand their ground.

I've been bullied before. That's why I'm in this position. None of the sh*t in my life related to debt and banks is really anything to do with me, it's something that has happened to me, caused by a bully long ago, an injury affecting me in ways I could not prevent, or repair, for many years. Until recently.

Muwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha HA HA HA HA HA !!

That which has not killed me has made me stronger!

I've read around the site, got the general gist. Nice one, site crew!

I sent a CCA request to BC, have received shiny new T&Cs for the alleged 'account' with them.

The covering letter made me chuckle - it contains the following sentence.

Thankyou for choosing Barclaycard.

Made me laugh out loud - I would never choose Barclaycard in a million years! I told them to stick the enclosed sharp pieces of their plastic card where the sun don't shine back in 1983. No, I didn't choose BC, they (apparently) chose me.

The T&C they sent are presumed to be current ones, states 10/08 in the document reference at the bottom.

In part, it reads "IMPORTANT - READ THIS CAREFULLY TO FIND OUT ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS The Consumer Credit Act 1974 lays down certain requirements for your protection which should have been complied with when this agreement was made. If they were not, we cannot enforce this agreement without getting a court order."

So that's all right then.

It also alleges that they provide a high quality service. I don't think much of the service I am getting. I asked for a nice true copy of the CCA for this alleged BC account in my name, but ... I don't have one. Dang! [why am I not surprised?] I must complain about that. After I send them a default letter perhaps.

And so to bed. Sweet dreams everyone.

I had to "make another payment" before the 2+12 ran out on the (fruitless) CCA request.
It is obvious from their ramp up of interest rate and (this month) the moving back by two weeks of the 'payment date'
that they are trying to make it harder for me to meet the required payment and so the account can only go
further into apparent arrears and so soon into default.

Like I am bothered any more. They can't default me in time to stop me defaulting them.
Just in the nick of time, I can head them off at the pass.

Questions in my mind are

"Do I attack further, in another 30 days, for return of all monies they have taken from me since 'assignment' plus 8% plus my CCAreq £1 back
-OR-
wait for them to froth up into much unlawful activity so I can extract their doco from a CP req against their POC first?"

and

"What is the likelihood that the previous debtor misbehaved with transactions because they
never actually defaulted the account, just left it running as '3 months late' for a couple of years?"


Wrought a "You have not complied to CCA Req" letter, would welcome any feedback on it before I ship it out very early next week.

FORMAL COMPLAINT, and
NOTICE OF DEFAULT under section 76 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, and
STATUTORY NOTICE under section 10 of The Data Protection Act 1988.

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re: Barclaycard account 1234 5678 9009 8765.

Thank you for your letter of ** March 200@, the contents of which have been noted.

In my letter of the ** February 200@ I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account, and other associated information, under Sections 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. On ** February 200@ a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

To date you have failed to comply with my request in any way – you have not confirmed receipt of the request, you have not supplied the requested documents (a true copy of the executed Credit Agreement, any documents referred to in any such Agreement, and a Statement of Account), and you have not confirmed whether or not you can supply the documents as required.

The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You should be aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for requests for a true copy of a credit agreement to be satisfied before you enter into a default situation. This time limit has now expired.

Section 78(6) states:
If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account, and related documents.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a properly executed credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following apply:

You may NOT demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
You may NOT add further interest, or any charges, to the account.
You may NOT pass the account to a third party.
You may NOT register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
You may NOT issue a Default Notice related to the account.


Please note: you should also consider this letter to be a Statutory Notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1988 to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that you will have agreed to remove all such data as asked.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.
I reserve the right to publish corrective statements on my credit reference accounts if I deem it necessary in order to protect my reputation.


From the date of this letter I require ALL communications from Barclays Bank plc t/a Barclaycard to be made in writing.

You are welcome to contact me by letter with your intentions to resolve this matter, which is now a formal complaint. Please do not telephone me again. I request you to remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems.

If you telephone me after the receipt of this letter an official complaint together with a log that shows the times and frequency of your calls will in due course be passed to the Office of Fair Trading and also to your local Trading Standards office.

I would respectfully remind you that repeatedly telephoning me in connection with this matter, particularly while you are in Default, is likely to be considered contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it could be intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Such methods will not be tolerated.

I would also respectfully remind you that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

telephone calls WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

I'm grateful to previous editors whose prose has contributed to the above.
[We rated some of X20's paragraphs as sheer poetry last night while doing research]

Warm regards.
Lamp Lighter.

Hi LL,

The letter above is fine to go, once tweaked to reflect your own case. But you'll have gathered, from other threads, that BC will ignore most of what you write.

So read the first few posts of the CPR thread listed at Link No2 in my signature below.

Are there any penalty charges on this a/c which you can reclaim.

Greetings Slick, and thanks.

The letter above seemed to touch all the relevant points and so serves my simple short-term strategy : to stop giving them money. I have children to feed, clothe and house but no work therefore I cannot currently afford to further enrich my already wealthy 'creditor', especially as I have priority debts to pay like electricity!

I have reviewed using CPR approaches. I am in two minds ...
do I give them some time then sue for my recent payments back on the grounds they cannot produce so could not lawfully take my payments ...
or await their likely action on the alleged debt and then use CPR to obtain disclosure during a proper defense preparation?

Perhaps both routes would be worthwhile ... or may even become necessary. I have not yet looked to see if counter-claims become linked to claims in any way.

It occurs to me that having more than one matter in progress could actually be quite useful given that they seem so very well organised.

[At the moment I am so amused by this that it's hard to concentrate properly. I keep thinking of ways to receive calls that would leave me totally un-stressed but utterly infuriate the caller. This is either a symptom of "perceived relief" or possibly an overdose of grateful thanks to St. Jude for prayers answered].


As for reclaimables, this matter arises from an assignment from another company, and until I have had both organisations' responses to SARs I can't evaluate what has actually happened. We will see ... when I have £30 to spare the SARs can go in.

Maybe next week. I have to go to the post office anyway.
Have a nice weekend.
LL

Hi LL,

do I give them some time then sue for my recent payments back on the grounds they cannot produce so could not lawfully take my payments ...

You'll not sue them to get monthly a/c pay'ts back. But you can seek a court ruling on the (un)enforceability, or the lack, of a Credit Agreement.

or await their likely action on the alleged debt and then use CPR to obtain disclosure during a proper defense preparation?

Certainly, if they start action against you, you can defend on the basis of unenforceability, or lack, of the Credit Agreement.

As for reclaimables, this matter arises from an assignment from another company

Whoever now owns the debt is also responsible for the repayment of any penalty charges made on the a/c and interest thereon.

Whoever now owns the debt is also responsible for the repayment of any penalty charges made on the a/c and interest thereon.

Thanks for that, saves time and money, in fact that's cheaper and better, by far, than my expectation. Hmmmm ...

So ... while there is a presumption that the 'ticket' exists all penalties over the past 6 years can be reclaimed in full to be paid over into another account? Yet amounts are (unlawfully) added monthly to the account but nothing is paid off and to enforce final settlement a district judge requires sight of presumed ticket?

This long-term water-treading arrangement must be to facilitate the frantic searching, by hordes of low-paid clerks, through thousands of stout cardboard storage boxes (holding millions of documents) for the one they depend on. Which might be just an old application form ... hmmmm.

So down the jolly old P.O. and let's get statements to analyse, see what can be retrieved. It appears from CX report it wasn't defaulted when I in fact had to default on all, it should have been defaulted, but instead was left to run on (several months in arrears) for years without any statements being sent out.

That can't be right, can it? Not defaulting the account when I am unable to continue participating in a credit-based economy due to utter poverty and call to say I'm unavoidably in default, then letting it run on as though defaulted and yet sending no statementing? [Voice of late, great Viv Stanshall echoes "Blimey!"]

More anon ...
Cheers,
LL.

Looks like a SAR should be sent off then.

Dear BC,
Oops, you are in default.
Call me some time ...
LL.

Dear BC,
Show me your data!
LL

They bring it on themselves, they really do.
More anon ...
LL