Thread: RE: PPC's and Vehicle Tax

Hello every1,

Quick question, the PPC that manages the site where I live state on the sign at the entrance that all vehicles must display valid vehicle tax. The land is private btw. Could they enforce this under contract law as I thought that the correct terminology was Vehicle Excise Duty - therefore should not the sign say that all vehicles must display evidence of current vehicle excise duty. I know it is a technicality but then legal cases are one and lost on minor details.

P.S. I know about the general issues of PPC charges being unenforceable - it is opinions on the tax issue I am interested in.

Regards,

TFT

PPC dream their own rules up so they can give you one of their fairytale invoices, the answer is NO, they DO NOT WORK for the DVLA, however make sure the car has been SORN

The reason for this rule is that there are too many cars at the site for the spaces available; therefore, by taxing your vehicle you automatically use it. However, if you do not tax your vehicle then you are guaranteed not to use it?! - this is what the managing agent says - not my words.

Personally, my vehicle is taxed as I am an absolute petrol head and cannot go two days without driving; however, I thought it was an interesting point. Surely, the Unfair Contract Terms Act must kick in at some stage, otherwise you could say that only grey cars with an engine bigger than 1.8 litre capacity can only park here.

TFT

Originally Posted by gwc1000

I can see their point about an untaxed car. I would imagine that they would think that there is a possibility that any untaxed car is dumped, and would be left to deteriorate.

However, in my instance my car is reasonably expensive and not the sort of vehicle that would be dumped.

TFT

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

If the land is private they can make up what rules they like as long as they are clearly signed and do not breach any other laws such as no cars belonging to black people which would be discriminatory. Saying no grey cars is no different from saying no vans or vistors cars.

Does that mean that a shop such as Tesco could say no one is allowed to come in who has white shoes - even if there was no good reason for this. Surely, as a business selling the right to park on your private land you are providing a service to consumers and should be bound by relevant laws.

TFT

Does that mean that a shop such as Tesco could say no one is allowed to come in who has white shoes - even if there was no good reason for this. Surely, as a business selling the right to park on your private land you are providing a service to consumers and should be bound by relevant laws.

A shop such as tescos has the right to refuse you entry, or refuse to serve you for any or no reason, nor are they obliged to give a reason for the refusal.

Similarly If you own a carpark you can legally refuse anyone entry for any or no reason (although as stated above if you posted a sign saying no cars owned by blacks there would be discrimination issues)
If the owner of the land says no untaxed cars - then no untaxed cars are allowed - end of. Parking an untaxed car is therefore trespass and they can legally respond by clamping. There is no unfair terms in this contract as there is no contract.
(personally I think wheel clamping should be illegal and all those involved should be shot - reincarnated and shot again but thats another story)

So if there is no contract then how can PPC's take you to court for breaching a contract?

TFT

If you mean about the untaxed car - they are not taking you to court for breach of contract - they are taking you to court for trespass, as they have prohibeted untaxed cars from parking on their land

I once went to a motorcycle shop, where the car park was for motorcycles only. There was a large notice saying NO CARS, ANY CARS PARKED HERE WILL BE CLAMPED.

As the owner of the carpark the bike shop owner had that right (assuming he had all the relevant licenses etc)
In the same way a landowner could ban all cars of a certain make, model color or taxation class or status.

I once went to a motorcycle shop, where the car park was for motorcycles only. There was a large notice saying NO CARS, ANY CARS PARKED HERE WILL BE CLAMPED.

No doubt a hollow threat, but going by that sign he's have to take the clamp off straight away, for no charge. Seems a bit pointless in that respect, but I suppose it works if people actually don't park there.

A shop such as tescos has the right to refuse you entry, or refuse to serve you for any or no reason, nor are they obliged to give a reason for the refusal.

Similarly If you own a carpark you can legally refuse anyone entry for any or no reason (although as stated above if you posted a sign saying no cars owned by blacks there would be discrimination issues)
If the owner of the land says no untaxed cars - then no untaxed cars are allowed - end of. Parking an untaxed car is therefore trespass and they can legally respond by clamping. There is no unfair terms in this contract as there is no contract.
(personally I think wheel clamping should be illegal and all those involved should be shot - reincarnated and shot again but thats another story)

Right about the 'rules', but again, any clamp would have to be removed straight off, for free.
You can choose who does and who doesn't use your land, but if you want to enforce silly rules like no red cars, you're only option is to stand at the entrance and vet who you let past.

they are taking you to court for trespass, as they have prohibeted untaxed cars from parking on their land

As this a civil case, you would have to demonstrate what losses you've incurred from Mr No-Tax's parking. You'd have a hard job proving it was any more than £0.

If the owner of the land says no untaxed cars - then no untaxed cars are allowed - end of. Parking an untaxed car is therefore trespass and they can legally respond by clamping. There is no unfair terms in this contract as there is no contract.

You can say what is and isn't 'allowed' til you're blue in the face, but there's not much you do. You could clamp, but without an SIA licence and clear signs you'd be in a sticky situation. As there is 'no contract' the car owner would be entitled to self help and even take you to court if you cost him financially from your actions.

Yes, but PPC's have to realise that we have the DVLA and the Police to ensure that vehicles are correctly licensed - they don't have to worry about it - bless them lol It's not really the same as checking a permit or P and D is it because that shows you have a right to park on the land. A valid tax disc only indicates that you have paid your car tax to the government.

TFT

You can say what is and isn't 'allowed' til you're blue in the face, but there's not much you do. You could clamp, but without an SIA licence and clear signs you'd be in a sticky situation. As there is 'no contract' the car owner would be entitled to self help and even take you to court if you cost him financially from your actions.

If you read my post when I put this I did specify "provided they have the correct licenses" by which I meant the SIA license etc

As long as the sineage is correct, this would be no different than saying "no parking, cars parked here will be clamped"

This is fully legal and enforceable.

does he want to buy one - I know where there is one for sale