Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Card has been taken away and account now on a dmp since 2005.
Somehow this account never got a default - instead "I" is showing on the credit files every month (I think this means 'arrangement').
On the plus side it isn't a "D", but on the negative side the "I"s will presumably continue until it's fully paid off plus 6 years after that. At the present rate that means the credit file won't be 'clean' until 2024!
Charges were all reclaimed last year. They put up a fight and tried to short change us on the interest. They backed down as soon as we contacted the fos.
Reading other threads has made me wonder whether Barclaycard still have a copy of the original agreement or whether it has been destroyed by a dodgy microfiching process.
Of course, if the agreement is no longer in existence, the alleged debt becomes totally unenforceable.
We also have quite a pile of PPI charges which have built up over the years. If you added those all up, added contractual interest plus 8% pa court interest on top, I think you'd be getting pretty close to the alleged outstanding balance.
It is highly questionable whether my friend ever agreed to the PPI charges, and we are considering whether it will be possible to claim them back.
All of the above means we would really love to see a signed copy of the original credit agreement for this account, as we sadly no longer have our own copy.
Barclays have been typically awkward in their responses to our CCA 1974 s78 request.
Actually, they have been confused, because we have received two different letters, a few days apart.
Letter A says it encloses "A copy of your original Barclaycard Credit Agreement at the time you opened your account"
Letter B says it encloses "A copy of your original Barclaycard terms and conditions at the time you entered into the agreement".
In fact, both letters contain only copies of standard terms and conditions. I understand that they are technically allowed to do this. But you have to wonder why they would have two different letters. Surely not one letter to send when they DO have a copy of the agreement, and one letter when they DON'T have a copy.....?
Undetered, we are now going down the CPR 31.16 route as an alternative way of obtaining a copy of our agreement where the CCA 1974 s78 request has failed. We are using the templates on this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...uldnt-use.html
Letter 1 was ignored. Letter 2 has been sent by special delivery with a copy of letter 1 attached, so they can't claim they never received the first one.
Time will be up about a week from now, at which point we will be issuing the N244 form.
I imagine we will need some help and input to make sure we do it properly, and especially in such a way as we do not open ourselves up to paying Barclaycard's costs.
You could wait a while before actually issuing the N244 to put this matter in the court's hands...........
........... by which time, you will see how others have got on with their N244 applications. More importantly, we should know if users have had any problems re costs, or any other aspects of this strategy.
Another option is to send a new SAR (with £10 fee) asking clearly for the executed Credit Agreement. If or when BC fail to produce it, report the matter to the Info Commissioners Office and ask them to investigate with a view to oibtaining the Agreement on your behalf.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
Thanks for that slick132, I hadn't thought about using the Information Commissioner to get hold of it.
Can you point me to a thread where somebody is using the N244 route against Barclaycard? As you suggest, we could wait a while and see how others are getting on, rather than all making the same mistakes....
You'll see several threads here in BC where users have started down the CPR route, but only quite recently.
Also, if you read the CPR thread, I think you'll see peeps saying they'll start - if you click on their username, then search for threads started by them, you should find the relevant threads to read.
Or try a SEARCH (top of the page) for CPR 31.16 and see what comes up.
I'll put a link here to any threads which I see that may help you.
As always on CAG, the best advice is to read around on the threads.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
You could wait a while before actually issuing the N244 to put this matter in the court's hands...........
........... by which time, you will see how others have got on with their N244 applications. More importantly, we should know if users have had any problems re costs, or any other aspects of this strategy.
Another option is to send a new SAR (with £10 fee) asking clearly for the executed Credit Agreement. If or when BC fail to produce it, report the matter to the Info Commissioners Office and ask them to investigate with a view to oibtaining the Agreement on your behalf.
hiya all
i rang the ico today and specifically said to them that bcard had only sent me 6 yrs of statments and told me that is all the info they hold, yet id asked for other stuff ie cca, terms, default notices etc,,,was told that it was for me to contact oft regarding this and not under the data subject request application and also the cca had certain rulings !
not sure of this but i thought id let you know what i was told by the ico
so although i have req bcard now under cpr i am being extra reasonable to see what i get,,,before i have to send the second letter which i will and then have to take the advice from here re the court claim,,,,but always mindful that they may ask for costs re this from bcard!
good luck laters angel x
Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.
my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"
This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel
Hi Militant - please excuse the hijack but the reply to Angel here may be useful.
Hi Angel,
I think when you say "cca" above, you are actually referring to the Credit Agreement.
Usually, CCA means Consumer Credit Act (as in CCA 1974) or we use it as a verb - ie, I CCA'd Barclaycard last week.
AFAIK, if you send a SAR asking for the Credit Agreement and BC fail to supply it, they are guilty of non-compliance according to the Data Protection Act.
This would be reported to and, I hope, acted upon by the ICO who should order production of the Agreement.
Try putting your complaint to the ICO in writing and see hw they reply. You could ask about non-compliance generally, or refer specifically to your BC case.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
I think when you say "cca" above, you are actually referring to the Credit Agreement.
Usually, CCA means Consumer Credit Act (as in CCA 1974) or we use it as a verb - ie, I CCA'd Barclaycard last week.
AFAIK, if you send a SAR asking for the Credit Agreement and BC fail to supply it, they are guilty of non-compliance according to the Data Protection Act.
This would be reported to and, I hope, acted upon by the ICO who should order production of the Agreement.
Try putting your complaint to the ICO in writing and see hw they reply. You could ask about non-compliance generally, or refer specifically to your BC case.
See how they reply in writing.
hiya slick,,,
my huge apologies, to you too Militant,, and to slick (((( the reply has helped me and hopefully for others reading the thread to not make the same mistake))))
,,definately, i meant Credit Card Agreement not Consumer Credit Act as in cca 1974.
That annoyed me today from the ico helpdesk,,, but reflecting and reading more tonight, i had thought to put it in writing as a new complaint to ICO to see what i got back from them in writing.
Thanks again for clarification, and since im waiting on the cpr from bcard, i might as well send my complaint to ico too, and see how things pan out
laters angel x
Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.
my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"
This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel
I think the problem is that even if we prove that they have failed to comply with the Data Protection Act, then the maximum fine is £5,000.
For the individual consumer, the result could be you think they don't have a copy of the agreement, you stop paying, you get a default, and then later a CCJ if they sue you and produce the original agreement in court.
At that point it is no use to you complaining they didn't comply with an entirely different and unconnected piece of legislation.
Angel - No HUGE apologies required. Your input is useful to Militant and to all readers.
Militant - The reason for using the CPR route is to demand sight of the document on your terms.
This won't stop the OC taking you to court but, if they do this, they must produce the Credit Agreement as the basis of their claim. Either way, you'll get to see the document.
In the meantime, if you're concerned about stopping payments without good reason, you could continue to pay each month.
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
thanks both,,,,,i wonder if this would interest you both, ive just replied to a thread and the poster has had a reply from bcard and we both think in responce to the cpr letter, will go and link it here for you both to view as ive yet to see that reply from barclaycard and we both think its a new template letter
see what you both think am back================= see below link any help appreciated
Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.
my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"
This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel
Yes, we have now received this "new" letter as posted in gary68's thread.
Ok, fine, maybe they don't have to show us a copy of the agreement under CCA 1974. We're not going to argue the toss about that.
But that's not what we asked for. We asked for disclosure under CPR 31.16 of a copy of the original signed agreement because we believe that it may be improperly executed and/or we believe they may have wrongly charged us for mis-sold payment protection insurance premiums.
What a ludicrous situation. Can you imagine a commercial situation where two companies were arguing about who owed what to whom, and the company who held the signed agreement refused to produce a copy of it. Or refused to admit they had lost or destroyed it! What kind of nonsense is this?
I suppose in the spirit of avoiding costs it's going to be necessary to write ANOTHER letter to Barclaycard, just to spell it out to them that we really aren't interested in section 78 of the CCA 1974 anymore.
Otherwise I suppose they could say we hadn't been reasonable enough in explaining things so that their tiny minds could understand what we wanted, and that we had jumped straight in with litigation.
This will be the 5th letter since last November asking them for a copy of the credit agreement in one way or another.....
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
I've got this stupid 'new' reply too. I love the bit about providing "an excerpt" from the application form "to show you signed a contract with us." Well, I'd like the "excerpt" with something on it which relates to me.
I just don't know what to say in reply to this, apart from what I have already said, which is that I want a copy of the agreement I signed and why are they so reluctant to produce it?
Not noticed you on my thread lately, but wanted to thank you for that letter and your help in relation to my case.
Got a response today, with Barclaycard admitting failures/mistakes, and a compensation offer of £50, which i have rejected, and have asked the lady dealing with the case to re assess the comp
Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.
Militant's Friend v Barclaycard
since 2005.
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by slick132
