Thread: Win Investing - And no right to refund - mental capacity issues

Booking form below.

Slightly confusing is that on bookin form it advises of a comprehensive share trading pack being purchased, on the back it advises of purchasing a home study pack.

Sorry you lost me there.

Home study kit or whatever name they wish to give to it has not been provided at all.

They have £1970 and this person has nothing.

Solicitors feel they have a right of refund and suggested to go ahead with a N1.

I just wanted some further advice on this? And also due to their mental health issues and whether they had the mental capacity to enter into this agreement?

The 7 days is with regards to 7 days after receiving the goods, which still have not arrived. They requested the refund / cancelled early.

Paid by a debit card.

From what I have been told by others who have been to these 'presentations' the whole enterprise is carefully stage managed to make the attendee desperate to buy - very much like those fake 'auctions' that used to be popular in Oxford Street in London until Trading Standard managed to get them closed down.

The mental capacity argument is a non starter, if they are competent to have a bank account and make other decisions, the fact they (along with many others) were conned, is hardly an issue of a special dispensation. Clever people, normal people and stupid people get conned - there's no mystery to it.

The only fall back is that you can sometimes use your payment method to seek retribution, like with a credit or (Visa) debit card. In these cases, you can assert that the contract was never completed due to their inability to provide the necessary course material. Assuming they payment - which I understand was by Debit card - was either a Deferred Debit, or Visa Electron, there will be no problem.

However, if a Mastercard Debit Card (Maestro) then there is no scheme to arrange a reversal as it is only Visa who provide this additional protection (voluntarily) for debit card users.

The only other option, in the absence of receiving the goods as specified, is to proceed with the N1 and take them to court. However this may simply result in the missing course paperwork being delivered with an apology, which will then make it much harder to pursue, as it will look as though it is the customer who is trying to weasel out of their agreement.

Hi buzby

Thanks for that.

The reason for mentioning that is they are classed as a vulnerable adult with severe mental disabilities, but I do see your point on that.

It was a maestro debit card unfortunately...

Sending the course materials etc out now some 7 months + after ordering when the terms and conditions state no later than 30 days after payment is quite a big delay though!

Agreed - but you'll appreciate a company like this will do all it can to - if put on the spot - claim that it was simply an oversight then ship the goods (you don't want) and short stop the action.

Normally in this situation I would have sent them a 'time is of the essence' letter, giving them 14 days to deliver the goods or provide a return of the money paid. If the refund is not forthcoming within the stipulated period, this forms you basis of claim when taking them to court.

But since you don't want the goods - I'm at a loss at how you could best strong-arm them into making a refund without delivering the goods first. There may be a possibility of being able to return them as unsuitable after receipt - but this would depend on their T&C's!

October last year a 14 day letter was sent which was not replied to (after the date passed they had advised of the refund)

Their solicitor has sent 3 letters again no response

Also their is evidence of calls between august & october of them advising various stages of the refund process right up until the date they gave that it was meant to be back in this persons account and it wasnt.

Guys - you want to get your refund claim in quickly, they are bankrupt according to Insolvency news.

This is really odd because they are still trading, do we know what happens with things like their courses, investment club etc?

I have had issues with this outfit - the founder Darren Winters is a charlatan and was treated to a corruscating profile in "Investors Chronicle" - I have tried repeatedly to obtain a refund on the grounds of fraudulent misrepresentation, unfair terms of trade to no avail. In my attempts to seek redress I have discovered that this outfit have been subject to innumerable court actions throughout the country which is not what you would expect of a reputable company. What I find insane here is that as a member of the general public I cannot obtain from the court service the results of any of the legal actions brought against this miserable outfit - how on earth is that in the public interest?

They were also subjected to less than complimentary coverage by the financial pages of several popular tabloid papers.

Had I known how dishonest they are I would never have entertained dealing with them but as the first posting in this thread states they are very good at cultivating a "feeding frenzy" and manipulating people into a highly suggestible state of mind.

My real beef is with the credit card companies that process payments to them - I attempted to seek redress through them and got short shrift. Being able to process credit card payments to my mind invests an enterprise with a degree of credibility that in this case is wholly undeserved.

I am still bitter about the experience and hope that Mr Winters suffers truly for the pain he has caused many innocent but trusting members of the public.

Any suggestions on pursuing the Credit Card companies in this matter or am I wasting my time and having to put this episode down to experience?