Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
We are looking for people like ourselves who bought a car then found out it had a lbl on it.
We swapped a Renault Megane Sports Coupe (4 seater) for Citreon Synergie (7 seater). We needed a bigger car as we have a disabled child small car didn't have enough room.
We done hpi checks and car was clear nothing shown up. We done the deal and took the citreon.
In the time we had the citreon we spent money doing it up for its mot this cost us £1500.
In December we got up to find the car had been clamped, we called the number left. This is when we found out it had a lbl on it. They came to out and told us they were taking the car as it was not ours and we were not entitled to it.
The firm that came out were called Armstrong Recovery Ltd (debt collection agency). They chucked our personal posessions out of the car not bothering to take any care. But not everything of ours was given back somethings were taken with the car (my sons sponser money, cd's kids toys) not a lot but ours.
They drove the car away, we were shown nothing, told nothing. We went to see our solicitor who got in touch with Armstrong Recovery who basically told us to ********** off.
Lbl quote the BOS 1887 did they have cars then????????????????.
We have been in touch with the daily mirror who is running our story in the next couple of weeks. We went to the papers because up until Jan 09 the megane was still registered in my name and i was recieving parking tickets, my solicitor has sorted this out for me. But my son who is autistic and has adhd is now having his life put at risk everyday walking to and from school, when away from school he is a prisoner in his own home as he can' handle going on public transport because there is too many people around. We had a car to make his life easier.
As the megane was worth £2000 and the money we spent on the citeron £1500 we have been ripped of for £3500. What we find wrong is the fact we are not entitled to anything so we are innocent victims in this but still entitled to nothing. The people we got the citreon from owed over £2000 on the car but stopped paying the loan they must have known that the car was going to be taken so they sold it. Is it right that they can keep the megane. The law should help protect innocent victims but at the moment they are protecting the wrong people.
All innocent victims need to work together to help change the law as well as helping others who are now expereincing problems with lbl and their agents.
If you are a third party victim please let us know your story.
As you have a Solictor involved,why has he/she not considered a application to court for a Return of Goods Order?
The argument for this is that the orginal sale was a conditional sale,you agreed to swap (possibly with additional money to offset the value,in view that you were upgrading to larger vehicle).
As the original seller had no legal title to the vehicle, the sale could be considered null and void. As the seller has probably moved,there is no reason why you cannot start legal action at the sellers last known address.
Once in receipt of a Return of Goods Order, and if the the seller has moved from the address from which the vehicle was sold, a letter with a copy of the ROG to the DVLA may reveal a new address, which could then be passed back to the court bailiffs to effect the order.
This type of Fraud is becoming frequent and typically takes place like this.
The soon to be seller applys to the DVLA for a replacement V5 document.
Armed with two copys of the V5,he/she goes to a LBL type of operation and applys for a loan,and in the process surrenders 1 copy of the V5 to the lender.
Now the soon to seller is up on the deal,1 or 2 payments may take place, now the soon to seller trys to sell the vehicle.
Having found a probable buyer and armed with the 2nd copy of the V5 and other documents goes to the new buyers address and sells the car.
The new buyer confident in that all the documents are correct (and without rarely asking why a replacement V5 is being produced) buys the vehicle.
The Seller is now twice up on the deal,1st with money from the lender and 2nd with money from the buyer.
The Seller by now would have moved and in due course gets a vist from a repo team at the last known address, having no sucess they carry out a DVLA check and find the new keeper, and in all too many cases,the innocent 3rd party buyer loses the vehicle.
HPI checks are only as good as the information provided,at the moment there is no legal requirement for a lender to register their interest in a vehicle.
Apologys if this seems a simplistic view, and I agree that there are problems with LBL and their business practice, but in this case there is a strong argument to pursue the seller,it`s the seller who has defrauded you and LBL
Our solicitor is looking in to getting the car we swapped back, but will it be in the condition we swapped it. (we don't think so). Without saying to much we also have reason to pursue lbl and the recovery company.
We had repairs done to the car that was taken these cost £1500, who is liable for them, as we were never the legal owner we are not responsible for the repair costs.
Lbl said they were the legal owners (maybe they should refund us the repair costs)
We are in touch with a bbc programme who are looking into our case as well. They also keeping their eyes on this site.
I just wanted to post support for you, and i hope you can recoup all your losses.
I'm a 'customer' of LBL myself, though would never consider selling my vehicle whilst under contract without authorisation of the loan company, and am disgusted that people can do this to innocent parties such as yourself.
I did change my car once whilst under contract, though informed LBL prior to the sell, which they agreed, although they applied a £100 admin charge.
I do question the legalities involved in proving ownership of a car, and if there is finance outstanding.
LBL do take the owners V5 on completion of a loan, but that doesn't stop the owner requesting a duplicate from the DVLA.
You say that a HPI check was done on the car which showed no financial interest from a 3rd party.
To me common sense prevails, and that you shouldn't be penalised as you've shown due diligence in proving the status of the car you obtained.
LBL have failed in identifying their financial interest in the car, thus any monies outstanding on the loan, and breach of contract, should be taken up with the original owner of the car not you....how on earth could you be aware?
May i suggest you inform your MP of the situation, and requesting their understanding on the matter.
The OFT are in the process of revoking LBL's credit license, and if successful i would hope all loans of this type are stopped, at least until legislation can be implemented to stop this sort of thing happening. i.e that anyone with a financial interest in a vehicle must declare it on the HPI database within a certain time frame.
As you can tell, i can only speak from the heart, and sincerely hope that you can obtain a quick and satisfactory resolution.
We would like to thank you for your support, we now have our case in the hands of a solicitor who are looking at every aspect of our case. This includes lbl, armstrong recovery and the previous owners of the car.
Our MP has been involved with our case since January.
Our problems with the previous owner does not end with the taking of our car.
In November 2008 we received a parking ticket for the car we swapped. We took this to our solicitor as we were no longer the owner of the car. He sent proof of this to Nottingham City Council. The council took no notice of this and today we recieved a removal order from a bailiff who were going to come and reposess the car we no longer own if they couldn't take the car they were going to take possessions from our house.
This has now been st0pped after getting the daily mirror, local mp and cab involved.
We now regret ever swapping the car and getting involved in all this hassle.
Our MP has been brilliant and has helped alot over the last few months, the daily mirror have done alot to help.
We shouldn't have to pay someone elses debt, but they will be madeto pay in the end as the previous owner still has lbl on their case now they have nottingham city council and us.
Just a quick update on our situation with lbl and persons we got our car from.
Today we had a letter from our solicitor telling us they have recieved the bill of sale from lbl. The people we got car from took loan out on 7th november 2007 and swapped us the car in April 2008.
There is no court stamp on bill of sale. Solicitor now looking into best course of action for us to take. Looks like we finally getting somewhere.
The loan they took out was for £750, by the time the car was took from us this had gone up to over £2000.
Since we recieved the bill of sale earlier on in the week we have recieved another letter from our MP. Our MP Paddy Tipping has now found out that change of consumer law that was supposed to come in October has been put on hold. He has now wrote to the head of the OFT sending copies of all our emails and paperwork that we have to them, he wants to know why changes will not come into effect in October and he also wants to know why third party victims are not protected when they should be.
We now await replies from solicitor and OFT. He also asking how third party victims of any company like LBL can claim compensation as they have done nothing wrong.
We are also notifying Daily Mirror on Monday about this as they waiting to run follow up story on our case.
Paddy Tipping now trying to gain support from MPs to get changes to the law to protect innocent victims.
When we hear more we will update as necessary. Will find name of OFT person who he wrote to, then others can write to same person with their complaints about LBL.
Today we recieved letter from a council who are looking into Armstrong Recovery. If anyone else has had dealings with Armstrong Recovery send PM and we will give details.
Are You A Third Party Victim Of Lbl
agency). They chucked our personal posessions out of the car not bothering to take any care. But not everything of ours was given back somethings were taken with the car (my sons sponser money, cd's kids toys) not a lot but ours.
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Re: Are You A Third Party Victim Of Lbl
