Thread: Claiming compensation against South Eastern...

I'm sorry if this sounds unhelpful, but for what any advice I can give is worth, I strongly suggest that you promptly seek the qualified advice of a solicitor.

I am not saying that your story is not entirely truthful and I realise that you have not named anyone or anywhere in particular, but you have made a number of otherwise fairly detailed accusations. I very much doubt that anyone would comment on the action without being able to ascertain evidence of all these facts for themselves and I don't believe that you would expect that either?

I am very surprised that any BTP Chief Suprintendant should give such advice because it appears to be clearly lacking in knowledge of rail staff powers, particularly in with regard to P.A.C.E. codes and their application by R.P.Is & R.E.Os involved in enforcing Railway Byelaws and other relevent legislation.

However, if all of your description is on record just as you have explained, then I am sure that a good Solicitor will be only too happy to take up this matter on your behalf.

Good luck

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Originally Posted by Old-CodJA;2005939[/COLOR

I am not saying that your story is not entirely truthful and I realise that you have not named anyone or anywhere in particular, but you have made a number of otherwise fairly detailed accusations. I very much doubt that anyone would comment on the action without being able to ascertain evidence of all these facts for themselves and I don't believe that you would expect that either?

What do you mean "not entirely truthful"? and as for evidence, all of this incident is on the CCTV,however, the transport police say that I have to get the CCTV from southeastern, and southeastern say I get it from the transport police! And whilst I haven't named anyone in particular on this forum,,I do have the staff numbers of all 3 REOs who were involved.

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Originally Posted by Old-CodJA;2005939[/COLOR

I am very surprised that any BTP Chief Suprintendant should give such advice because it appears to be clearly lacking in knowledge of rail staff powers, particularly in with regard to P.A.C.E. codes and their application by R.P.Is & R.E.Os involved in enforcing Railway Byelaws and other relevent legislation.

Could you please explain this, as I was not only informed that the REOs were working beyond their power by the Chief superintendant but also by 3 members of staff at southeastern and 2 members of staff at Passenger focus. It seems unanimous on all fronts that the REOs broke the law.

Thanks

Unholy

July 4th 2008

In a 'first' for improved security on Britain's railways, British Transport Police (BTP) and Southeastern's Railway Enforcement Officers (REOs) can now contact one another immediately should the need arise, thanks to shared access to the police radio network.

BTP is responsible for policing the railways, and Southeastern's REOs are trained and accredited by BTP to carry out high-profile patrols, to deter and deal with fare evasion and anti-social behaviour on trains and stations, and to provide a reassuring presence for passengers.

There are now 60 REOs deployed across the Southeastern network, and since they were introduced in November 2005 they have boosted security and helped to cut crime by working closely with BTP officers.


You will see from the press release above REOs 'are accredited by BTP' 'to deal with fare evasion'.

If you read the job description to apply for the post (also available online) it states that REOs are required to undertake minor criminal investigations and take statements.

In order to do so, they will have to observe the requirements of The Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

This requires that immediately any 'investigating officer' (and that could also be a railway revenue protection inspector, DWP staff, TV licence inspector, RSPCA inspector etc...) suspects that an offence may have been committed he (or she) must caution the person suspected of that offence.

Now, I'm not saying it's right because I personally believe there should be more Police & Rail Revenue Protection Inspectors, but see the photograph that goes with the press release.

It just seems a little odd that anyone should be concerned that these people are 'impersonating police officers' when the BTP accredit them and give them a uniform doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Unholymess

Indeed, because according to southeastern, the REO are sub-contracted from a security firm! This was separately confirmed by the BTP without any prompting from me! According to the chief superintendant, some REOs are sanctioned by BTP, but not the ones that southeastern use. And both southeastern and BTP offered to me the suggestion that it was impersonation! Very strange. That press report certainly contradiccts that! The fare evasion part is irrelevant though because I had a valid ticket to travel, it was me supposedly vaulting over a barrier that I got the ticket for! However, whatever authority they do or don't have, they still laid hands upon me without consent or warning, which is assault, and detained me, which the actual police told them and me, they could not do. Not quite sure, but that's damn near kidnapping in the eyes of the law!

Another point about their conduct, they took my statement before cautioning me, and refused to let me see it to verify what they were writing. A friend of mine who's an ex-policeman said that the statement is inadmissable because of this. It just shows the complete lack of training going on at southeastern.

Is there any mileage in asking for compensation before i involve (and pay) a solicitor? If so, what kind of figure is appropriate to ask for?

Cheers

Unholy

I hope this doesn't offend, but I am often quite un-nerved by just how hopelessly wrong the Police sometimes get it too.

Questioning before cautioning, known as 'a pre-caution interview', will often give cause to suspect an offence and once that suspicion is established, then the caution must be given.

I would seek the qualified professional advice of a Solicitor. After all, if you win the case, you can apply for your Solicitors costs too and it is quite possible that if your case is strong, a good Solicitor will negotiate a settlement far above what you could achieve for yourself.

Originally Posted by Unholymess

Indeed, because according to southeastern, the REO are sub-contracted from a security firm! This was separately confirmed by the BTP without any prompting from me! According to the chief superintendant, some REOs are sanctioned by BTP, but not the ones that southeastern use. And both southeastern and BTP offered to me the suggestion that it was impersonation! Very strange. That press report certainly contradiccts that! The fare evasion part is irrelevant though because I had a valid ticket to travel, it was me supposedly vaulting over a barrier that I got the ticket for! However, whatever authority they do or don't have, they still laid hands upon me without consent or warning, which is assault, and detained me, which the actual police told them and me, they could not do. Not quite sure, but that's damn near kidnapping in the eyes of the law!

Another point about their conduct, they took my statement before cautioning me, and refused to let me see it to verify what they were writing. A friend of mine who's an ex-policeman said that the statement is inadmissable because of this. It just shows the complete lack of training going on at southeastern.

Is there any mileage in asking for compensation before i involve (and pay) a solicitor? If so, what kind of figure is appropriate to ask for?

Cheers

Unholy

Southeastern Trains REO's are not subcontracted, they are employed directly by the company.

Out of curiosity, which station were you at, and where were you standing when the REO's approached you?

Originally Posted by Unholymess

Hi there, i need some advice, in November last year I had a horrible experience at a train station. I was standing on the platform talking on my phone, when 3 Rail enforcement officers came up and asked me for my ticket, which I showed them, they then walked away. 2 minutes later, they came and asked to see it again, again I showed them it, and they walked off. About 30 seconds later, they came back again, and told me I had to leave the station immediately because I had walked past a sign that said "no passengers beyond this point" (I had not by the way!) I just said "whatever" and started to walk towards the exit, when one of the officers roughly grabbed hold of my arm and said "hold on, you're not going anywhere" and then proceeded to tell me he was going to write me a penalty notice for trespassing. I again tried to leave and another of the officers pushed me in the chest and told me I couldn't leave.

Frightened, I dialed 999 and spoke to the police who told me that REO have no power or right to detain me, I asked the woman at 999 to speak to the REO and she did (they were very polite and compliant on the phone) and then when the call was done they still said I couldn't leave and the phoned the transport police for backup.

When the transport police turned up (there are now a total of 5 officers "dealing" with me) the REO story suddenly changed and rather than just walking past asign, I had now vaulted over the yellow barrier at the end of the platform and started to head for the track!

I was incensed and demanded they look at the CCTV whih the Transport Police did, andtold me that it was obvious that I hadn't jumped over anything, but that I still had to accept the penalty notice and that I could just appeal it.

The REO then cautioned me, and got me to sign penalty notice which was headed "British Trasport Police" I have subsequently found out from talking to the Chief Superintendant of the Transport Police that REO have no right to caution nor should they be carrying notebooks with "Transport Police" written on them, and in his view, the REO were impersonating police officers!

Now, southeastern trains have been amazingly unhelpful, doing nothing more than sending me standard apology letters that have no relevance to my case, so I got into contact with passenger focus who advised me to request compensation from southeastern.

What I was wondering is, how do I phrase a compensation request? Do I ask for a specific figure, if so what would be an appropriate sum? Or do I just ask for compensation and see what they offer? Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks

Unholy

Hi

You fail to mention where this all took place, was it Orpington? Or Dartford? ETC


Rail Enforcement Officers have every right to caution you if you have committed an offence that is recordable in court. And they are accredited by the British transport police. They have notebooks that they have to record their movements and any incidents in which is part of the accreditation requirement, the REOs have police radios and can contact the BTP directly. Have You have been issued with a £50 penalty notice of disorder (PND's) for trespass? or possibly for unacceptable behavior? (public disorder)which would be £80, they can remove you by force from any southeastern property so they can touch you for that purpose if you refuse to comply. They can access the PNC (Police National Computer) to issue PND's

If you have spoken to the head of the transport police, then i am surprised that he has maybe forgotten that HE personally supports and accredits every one of Southeasterns REO's.

I would think you have no ground to charge the REO's (via the police)but maybe issue a letter of complaint to the customer services at Southeastern, this would be more effective.