Thread: Loading Place - width

Hi All,

Our fairly "relaxed" (after 6pm and on Sundays) city of Truro has suddenly turned into some kind of warzone wih regards to trafffic wardens. They really are on a mission (to recover some of the £2m the council illegally invested in Iceland perhaps?!).

Anyway my wife and I went for a meal on Saturday evening with our 5 month old - the first for ages as he's been rather unwell.

We parked in a loading bay that people have been using for many years at 8pm. Usually Truro is "safe" after 6pm.

We returned to find ours and another car had a ticket pcn 25.

I will usually just pay a ticket if I feel I have done anything wrong (each time we have made a small mistake, usually when dealing with our baby!) but this time I'm going to fight back against this "tax"

The loading bay is a "squashed" rectangle (trapezoidal) - one end is 2.45m wide, the other (the bay is about three cars lengths long) is only 1.4m wide.

Now I've done some swatting up and found a section of The Traffic Signs, Regulations and Directions 2002 act that states "The width of such a space (referring to "DISABLED, LOADING ONLY and DOCTOR" spaces) shall be 2700mm but this may be reduced to a width of not less than 1800mm in a case where, on account of the nature of the traffic using the road, the overall width of the carriageway is unsufficient to accommodate a wider bay"

This is stated in Schedule 6, diagram 1032 and also diagram 1028.3.

Worth writing back or should I just swallow the charge again?!

Thanks all!

Originally Posted by Gobsmacked123

Hi All,

Our fairly "relaxed" (after 6pm and on Sundays) city of Truro has suddenly turned into some kind of warzone wih regards to trafffic wardens. They really are on a mission (to recover some of the £2m the council illegally invested in Iceland perhaps?!).

Anyway my wife and I went for a meal on Saturday evening with our 5 month old - the first for ages as he's been rather unwell.

We parked in a loading bay that people have been using for many years at 8pm. Usually Truro is "safe" after 6pm.

We returned to find ours and another car had a ticket pcn 25.

I will usually just pay a ticket if I feel I have done anything wrong (each time we have made a small mistake, usually when dealing with our baby!) but this time I'm going to fight back against this "tax"

The loading bay is a "squashed" rectangle (trapezoidal) - one end is 2.45m wide, the other (the bay is about three cars lengths long) is only 1.4m wide.

Now I've done some swatting up and found a section of The Traffic Signs, Regulations and Directions 2002 act that states "The width of such a space (referring to "DISABLED, LOADING ONLY and DOCTOR" spaces) shall be 2700mm but this may be reduced to a width of not less than 1800mm in a case where, on account of the nature of the traffic using the road, the overall width of the carriageway is unsufficient to accommodate a wider bay"

This is stated in Schedule 6, diagram 1032 and also diagram 1028.3.

Worth writing back or should I just swallow the charge again?!

Thanks all!

sounds like a non compliant loading bay

can you get any photos, you will need them anyway to send into the councill as supporting evidence. we need to see the floor legend to make sure it says 'loading only'. take measurements of the width of the street if you can so the council cant counter with something stupid.


Its also a good idea to scan up the ticket front and back without personal stuff.

Nero - I went out and measured the bay last night (and looked like a total lunatic!). The writing is correct but extremely worn - gaps in the letters.

I took a photo of the bay too but may need to re-do it and it doesn't quite show the bay properly.

Will scan the ticket too - I can make a claim on-line so hopefully won't need to use the ticket. Would you advise dealing by post instead?

Thanks!

I have filled out the form with links to the relevant sections of the Act and a map link (Google Maps) showing the shape of the bay.

Not all that confident but worth a punt.

on-line appeals have a habit of getting lost. If you do iy on-line back it up with a postal copy with proof of delivery (special delivery or do it personally and get signed receipt)

Originally Posted by Gobsmacked123

I have filled out the form with links to the relevant sections of the Act and a map link (Google Maps) showing the shape of the bay.

Not all that confident but worth a punt.

Ok before you appeal post up the ticket and bay then your appeal letter
so we can view it. Postal is always best with recorded delivery (signed for should be about 70p)

Bay photo below.

I'd rather not put up the letter as it has my name and address but the text was (and will be on a letter if I need to send it):

Dear Parking Services,

I am writing to you to dispute a pcn (no 25) issues on Saturday 21st February 2009.

My wife and I went for a meal on Saturday evening with our 5 month old -
We parked in a loading bay that people have been using for many years at 8pm.

We returned to find ours and another car had a ticket PCN 25.

The loading bay is a right angled trapezoid - one end is 2.45m wide, the other (the bay is about three cars lengths long) is only 1.4m wide.

The Traffic Signs, Regulations and Directions 2002 act states "The width of such a space (referring to "DISABLED, LOADING ONLY and DOCTOR" spaces) shall be 2700mm but this may be reduced to a width of not less than 1800mm in a case where, on account of the nature of the traffic using the road, the overall width of the carriageway is unsufficient to accommodate a wider bay"

This is stated in Schedule 6, diagram 1032 and also diagram 1028.3.

(I then added weblinks to the relevant diagrams but can print them if needed).

Please cancel this PCN as the loading bay in non compliant.

Yours Faithfully,

Mr ******

I didn't send a photo but took this one which I can send if needed:



Again, I'd rather not post up the PCN as it has personal details on it!

While I'd like to get this sorted, I run a PR company so really can't spend much time on it!

Cheers all!

Called them yesterday to make sure the on-line form had been received - it had and a letter is on the way.

Probably getting my hopes up but the bay is fully coned off this morning and appears to be having work done on it...!

Originally Posted by Gobsmacked123

Well I got "rejected" but the silly fools made a rather large error (told me the diagram says the size only refers to "DISABLED" spaces (the diagram shows it for "DISABLED"- the notes below on the Highways Act says it also refers to "LOADING ONLY" spaces too. I have highlighted their error on the letter, sent them a print of the Highways Act with the right part highlighted and sent it back.

Will see what happens...

The letter said:

ADDRESS

25 February 2009

pcn No: RK00275227
Vehicle Reg no: **05 ***


Dear C Gaynor,


Thank you for your letter regarding the above PCN received on the 21st February 2009.

Please find enclosed your letter and a print out of Schedule 6, diagram 1028.3 with highlighted sections indicating where you are incorrect – you state in your letter that diagram “1028.3 applies only to disabled bays.”

You have not read the diagram notes correctly - Schedule 6 item 4 states that:

“DISABLED may be omitted or varied to:

• “BUSES”
• “LARGE OR SLOW VEHICLES ONLY”
• “LOADING ONLY”

Therefore I maintain that I am correct and that the loading bay is non compliant and am willing to take this further if required.

I have however paid the PCN charge to ensure I do not have my charge doubled to £70.00.

I therefore demand a full refund and suggest you either modify the loading area in question or refrain from ticketing this area as part of the Carrick Council’s current over-aggressive campaign of issuing PCNs in Truro.

Progress of this matter is being observed with interest from two respected motoring lawyers who are advising me on this case.


Yours sincerely,



MY NAME

The council are correct in that whilst the legend can be varied no minimum width is specified for any bay other than a disabled bay. The minimum width is covered by item 4 that accompanies the diagram, which states 'the minimum width for a bay reserved for DISABLED drivers... etc' it does not mention a minimum width for other types of vehicles.The diagram itself does not specify the minimum width just the length of the transverse markings which can be ommited in a bay. It is not uncommon for bays to be in lay bys which taper at both ends to allow entry and exit.