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Hi
I recently applied to RBS for a copy of my CCA.They replied back with the copies below.
One question i have as well is that my card changed from the standard classic card to a gold card after about 12 months or so, and the new card had a different account number.I also didnt sign any paperwork for the new updated gold card.Does this make any difference to the CCA request ?
Page 1 is the application form with no prescribed terms.
Where was the second page you have posted supposed to be? Was it on a separate piece of paper, or was it supposed to be on the back of the application?
The current terms and conditions are not the ones you were given when the account was opened. The figures are wrong.
You need an expert's advice here. The prescribed terms are not on the front of the application form, and they must be "within the four corners of the agreement" - can be overleaf, but cannot be on a separate leaflet.
Someone else with much more expertise will help you soon.
I'd agree with Daniella....no prescribed terms on the signature page - when read in line with this -
A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest(SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.
Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.
In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.
They will of course continue to argue that what they have is enforceable....(of course they will !!!!)
You could send them this back...
Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.
I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XXXXX.
As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any prescribed terms means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3)"
You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request and I am therefore advising that the matter is now in dispute . Whilst the matter is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else.
Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed Breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.
Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data
PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.
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What makes me laugh is the wording on the "True Copy" Credit agreement:
"The Consumer Credit Act 1974 lays down certain requirements for your protection which should have been complied with then this agreement was made. If they were not, we can not enforce this agreement without a court order".
So their own credit agreement drops them in it !! and they still have the cheek to say they've done nothing wrong.. but won't supply the signed credit agreement.
The charges are incorrect for when you applied. You applied in 2003, I presume from the application form. The level of charges RBS have given you are for the post-2006 OFT ruling.
I notice that on the "agreement" they sent you the monthly charge for both purchases and advances is 1.313%, but the APR's are 16.9% and 18.7% respectively. How can that be?
Anyone else having problems with royal mail tracking site ? Sent a letter to RBS on 16th march, but it just says received at post office (we have your item)
I will have to give the post office a ring otherwise
dont expect Royal Mail to help, you pay extra and they still dont get a signature!
I too received an Application Form, put account in dispute and received a similar reply to you and then a request for payment.
Am making a complaint through their complaints procedure which im sure will go nowhere, but then I can complain to everyone else and say iv gone through the hoops.
Received a default notice today from RBoS As far as i am concerned the account is still in dispute.
I am waiting for them to send me my SAR.They have until 12th May before their 40 days is up.
It should be interesting to see what they send, as i have 2 different account numbers (Original card replaced by a goldcard) but only remember signing one application.
Anyway back to the point in question, is the default notice they sent me correctly set out ?
IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU
I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU
IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.
Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.
Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.
If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.
Enforceable CCA?
for a copy of my CCA.They replied back with the copies below.
Reply With Quote
As far as i am concerned the account is still in dispute.
