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i've received this after sending a cca for my morgan stanley(Egg) card thru cabot
i've been told it may not be enforcable as it is so small it is impossible to read. does anyone have any thoughts please?
i've received this after sending a cca for my morgan stanley(Egg) card thru cabot
i've been told it may not be enforcable as it is so small it is impossible to read. does anyone have any thoughts please?
The first document you have posted is too small to be legible. The Consumer Credit(Cancellation and Copies of Documents) regulations 1983 section 2(1) states that copies shall be easily legible. Also, it is clearly stamped "Application Form" - under that sideways bar code.
Also, it is obvious that the terms etc are a from a totally different document. - They are required to be part of one continuous document.
have now received these from cabot
please can someone help, is what they are saying correct?
It's best to deal with one point at a time, so, starting at the beginning of their letter to you, is the "further copy" of your credit agreement large enough to now be readable? Also, is it now a copy of the agreement or still a copy of an application form?
It would be useful if you could post a copy of the agreement they have sent you, so it could be examined on this site, before dealing with the other points in their letter.
You will obtain much more assistance if your get your thread moved on to the debt collection industry forum. There are many members on there who have similar probs with Cabot/morgan Stanley.
You have posted up an application form (cannot make out the date) not an agreement, plus the T&C's are not the correct issue.
You will obtain much more assistance if your get your thread moved on to the debt collection industry forum. There are many members on there who have similar probs with Cabot/morgan Stanley.
You have posted up an application form (cannot make out the date) not an agreement, plus the T&C's are not the correct issue.
In my view, unenforceable.
AC
Sorry, I obviously missed something. I thought that what smiffy posted on 21st June at 0930 was a letter from Cabot. The only application I have noticed posted by smiffy was on Feb 11th at 1845. My understanding was that smiffy was mentioning that Cabot had since then sent a further copy which was now readable. I asked smiffy to post the "further copy" so we can see if it is now readable, and if it is now a copy of the agreement rather than of an application.
sorry if i've caused any confusion, they have enclosed another copy of the application form , it is from 2001 if that helps
but by & large it is still illegible.
sorry if i've caused any confusion, they have enclosed another copy of the application form , it is from 2001 if that helps
but by & large it is still illegible.
Hello Smiffy
The document you have posted is the same as you originally posted, that is to say it is still illegible and it is still a copy of an application form. Numerous points arise from this, for example there is the matter that Cabot have knowingly sent you what they know to be an application form, but are telling you it is an executed agreement. Youre best bet is to keep things simple. You could, for example send the following letter;
Customer Relations Manager
Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited
PO Box 241
West Malling
Kent
ME19 4NA (or whatever the Cabot address is)
Dear xxxxxx
Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxx.
Unfortunately I am not able to make any comment upon the matters set out in your letter, as Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited has not yet provided me with the information requested by me in my letter xxxxx dated xxxxx, as provided for by section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
For example, the document you have sent to me, which apparently purports to be a copy of an executed agreementt, does not comply with the requirement, stipulated in section 61(c) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, that the document is to be in such a state that all its terms are readily legible. Nor does the document you have sent to me comply with the requirement, stipulated in section 2(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notice and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983, that the lettering in every copy of an executed agreement shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible. You will be aware that the document sent to me is not readily legible, even with the aid of a magnifying glass.
The document is not a credit agreement, it is an application form.
Furthermore, the Financial & Related Conditions appear to have been added onto the side!
have sent toymaker letter, along with a telephine harrasment letter, as i was getting 2 or 3 calls a day. cabot have now sent this
what should i do now?
is what they are saying true, what are they likely to do next?
have sent toymaker letter, along with a telephine harrasment letter, as i was getting 2 or 3 calls a day. cabot have now sent this
what should i do now?
is what they are saying true, what are they likely to do next?
Dont let the letter from Cabot frighten you. From what I can see, Cabot are not really sure of their ground, and are blustering. Now send them a letter on the following lines:
Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxxx 2009.
Unfortunately I am not able to make any substantive comment upon the matters set out in your letter, as Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited has not yet provided me with the information originally requested by me on (date) in my letter (letter ref) dated (date of letter) as provided for by section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
For example, as indicated by me in my letter dated xxxxx the document copy you sent to me on xxxxxx which apparently purports to be a copy of the executed agreement relating to the above mentioned account, does not comply with the requirement, stipulated in section 61(c) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, that the document is to be in such a state that all its terms are readily legible. Nor does the document comply with the requirement, stipulated in section 2(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notice and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983, that the lettering in every copy of an executed agreement shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible.
In your letter you have stated your belief that at a certain time in the past, all terms were clearly legible. Unfortunately you have not provided me with a copy of that document in which all terms are clearly legible. You will understand that I am unable to make any comment on a document which you indicate is in your possesion and is legible. If you have such a legible document, I would be grateful if you provide me with a legible copy, in order that I can respond to you letter, and in order that all parties can act in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act, as referred to in paragraph one of this letter.
I draw your attention to the provisions of section 180 (2)(a) of the CCA 1974, which clearly indicate that a duty to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied conforms to the prescribed requirements, as I have referred to in the previous paragraphs of this letter, and also in my previous letter dated xxxxx.
In the event that the matters in dispute between Cabot and myself are put before a court for adjudication, I shall ask the court, when determining the matter, to take into consideration Cabot's refusal to enter in to any further correspondence with me regarding this matter. Also, I consider that the manner in which you have exercised your rights under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 amount to an unfair relationship within the terms of S140 of the Act, and I will request the court to make an appropriate Order under S140.
I request that Cabot do not make telephone calls to my address regarding the above mentioned dispute. I wish all communications to be in writing, in order that all parties to the dispute have a clear record of the matter. I will regard any telephone calls made on behalf of Cabot as harassment, and also to be in breach of paragraphs 2.2f and 2.2g and 2.6j of the OFT debt collection Guidance.
As you know, paragraph 2.8k. of the Office of Fair Trade debt collection Guidance of July 2003 updated December 2006 makes it clear that collection activity must cease whilst investigating a disputed debt. I look forward to the results of your investigation.
In the event that the dispute between Morgan Stanley/Goldfish, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd and myself is put before a court for adjudication, I will draw the court’s attention to the following points.
Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, although fully aware that the debt is disputed, have continued collection activity in breach of paragraph 2.8k. of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance.
I will also draw the courts’s attention to your statement that Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited will not enter in to any further correspondence with me regarding the, as yet uninvestigated, dispute between Morgan Stanley/Goldfish and Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited and myself concerning the above mentioned account. I consider that this amounts to an unfair relationship within the terms of Section 140 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I will request the court to make an appropriate order under Section 140 of the Act.
I will also draw the court’s attention to the manner in which Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd have dealt with the dispute between Morgan Stanley/Goldfish, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd and myself, particularly in relation to,
The Consumer Credit Act 1974,
The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notice and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983,
The Data Protection Act 1998,
The Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection and Unfair Business Practices (Updated December 2006),
The Solicitors’ Code of Conduct 2007,
The pre-action protocols which have been approved by the Head of Civil Justice,
The Credit Services Association Code Of Practice.
Regarding your indication that my account will be escalated in your collections process. I request that Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited does not make telephone calls to my address regarding the above mentioned dispute. I will not respond to telephone calls, as I wish all communications to be in writing, in order that all parties to the dispute have a clear record of the matter. I will regard any telephone calls made on behalf of Morgan Stanley/Goldfish or Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited as harassment, and also to be in breach of paragraphs 2.2f and 2.2g and 2.6j of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance.
I am confident that Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd will, as I will, provide to the court full records of the matters to which I have referred, including copies of my letters to Cabot Financial (Europe Ltd.
Yours sincerely
All you can do is take it one step at a time. Best of luck.
morgan stanley/ cabot
) card thru cabot
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Originally Posted by smiffy66
